Huge interview test seems like real (free) work for the company
up vote
17
down vote
favorite
I have applied for a Junior Product Manager position at a mobile gaming company (in Germany). After a standard phone screening, I was sent a test by email to complete in order to go further with the process.
The tasks consists in creating a roadmap for one of their mobile games with "at least 3 new features and a bunch of improvements to the current features in the game". It also asks to make estimations for the features/suggestions, and create a diagram to split up the work over the different teams. All suggestions should be well explained and motivated.
There is no set deadline, guidelines on the time to spend on the test or on the length of the deliverable.
Now, I have nothing against interview tests. I am actually very in favour of them, and try to stay away from companies that hire fast without really checking a candidate's abilities. I came from a developer background, so I have often been asked to do coding tests for interviews.
However, this test took me by surprise because:
The scope seems huge. Even cutting it short, I don't see how it would take me less than a week to do this properly.
It is real work for the company. I can't even be sure the company isn't doing this just to get lots of ideas out of people. Why not have the same test but regarding a competitor's game, or an hypothetical one?
I'd like to hear other opinions regarding this. Is this kind of test common practice? Is it reasonable? Are they trying to exploit me with free work? And if not, how do I approach the company? Should I suck it up and do the test, just drop this and not go further with the process (I'm actually pretty interested in working for them), or try to communicate my doubts to them? How?
Thank you!
interviewing germany test
New contributor
|
show 3 more comments
up vote
17
down vote
favorite
I have applied for a Junior Product Manager position at a mobile gaming company (in Germany). After a standard phone screening, I was sent a test by email to complete in order to go further with the process.
The tasks consists in creating a roadmap for one of their mobile games with "at least 3 new features and a bunch of improvements to the current features in the game". It also asks to make estimations for the features/suggestions, and create a diagram to split up the work over the different teams. All suggestions should be well explained and motivated.
There is no set deadline, guidelines on the time to spend on the test or on the length of the deliverable.
Now, I have nothing against interview tests. I am actually very in favour of them, and try to stay away from companies that hire fast without really checking a candidate's abilities. I came from a developer background, so I have often been asked to do coding tests for interviews.
However, this test took me by surprise because:
The scope seems huge. Even cutting it short, I don't see how it would take me less than a week to do this properly.
It is real work for the company. I can't even be sure the company isn't doing this just to get lots of ideas out of people. Why not have the same test but regarding a competitor's game, or an hypothetical one?
I'd like to hear other opinions regarding this. Is this kind of test common practice? Is it reasonable? Are they trying to exploit me with free work? And if not, how do I approach the company? Should I suck it up and do the test, just drop this and not go further with the process (I'm actually pretty interested in working for them), or try to communicate my doubts to them? How?
Thank you!
interviewing germany test
New contributor
31
You should stay away from any test that doesn't seem appropriate to you. Just walk away.
– Joe Strazzere
6 hours ago
19
This is a massive red flag for what working for them would be like. They're desperate, unethical, or both.
– Dark Matter
6 hours ago
9
How can they be asking you for an estimation without telling you the amount of ressources, the "good practices" in place on their project, the delivery procedure, the feature complexity referential, etc... An estimation of "1" in terms of complexity/workload depends from a project to an other. Other than that, it's not the PM's duty to do estimation !!!!
– Answers_Seeker
6 hours ago
8
In general, stay away from gaming companies. Many suck in young developers, get the last drop of blood out of them, and spit them out. This one sucks before you even started.
– gnasher729
6 hours ago
1
I don't see how you could even do this, without some intimate knowledge of their product, development process and the resources they have available. Which you won't know unless you actually start working there.
– Time4Tea
3 hours ago
|
show 3 more comments
up vote
17
down vote
favorite
up vote
17
down vote
favorite
I have applied for a Junior Product Manager position at a mobile gaming company (in Germany). After a standard phone screening, I was sent a test by email to complete in order to go further with the process.
The tasks consists in creating a roadmap for one of their mobile games with "at least 3 new features and a bunch of improvements to the current features in the game". It also asks to make estimations for the features/suggestions, and create a diagram to split up the work over the different teams. All suggestions should be well explained and motivated.
There is no set deadline, guidelines on the time to spend on the test or on the length of the deliverable.
Now, I have nothing against interview tests. I am actually very in favour of them, and try to stay away from companies that hire fast without really checking a candidate's abilities. I came from a developer background, so I have often been asked to do coding tests for interviews.
However, this test took me by surprise because:
The scope seems huge. Even cutting it short, I don't see how it would take me less than a week to do this properly.
It is real work for the company. I can't even be sure the company isn't doing this just to get lots of ideas out of people. Why not have the same test but regarding a competitor's game, or an hypothetical one?
I'd like to hear other opinions regarding this. Is this kind of test common practice? Is it reasonable? Are they trying to exploit me with free work? And if not, how do I approach the company? Should I suck it up and do the test, just drop this and not go further with the process (I'm actually pretty interested in working for them), or try to communicate my doubts to them? How?
Thank you!
interviewing germany test
New contributor
I have applied for a Junior Product Manager position at a mobile gaming company (in Germany). After a standard phone screening, I was sent a test by email to complete in order to go further with the process.
The tasks consists in creating a roadmap for one of their mobile games with "at least 3 new features and a bunch of improvements to the current features in the game". It also asks to make estimations for the features/suggestions, and create a diagram to split up the work over the different teams. All suggestions should be well explained and motivated.
There is no set deadline, guidelines on the time to spend on the test or on the length of the deliverable.
Now, I have nothing against interview tests. I am actually very in favour of them, and try to stay away from companies that hire fast without really checking a candidate's abilities. I came from a developer background, so I have often been asked to do coding tests for interviews.
However, this test took me by surprise because:
The scope seems huge. Even cutting it short, I don't see how it would take me less than a week to do this properly.
It is real work for the company. I can't even be sure the company isn't doing this just to get lots of ideas out of people. Why not have the same test but regarding a competitor's game, or an hypothetical one?
I'd like to hear other opinions regarding this. Is this kind of test common practice? Is it reasonable? Are they trying to exploit me with free work? And if not, how do I approach the company? Should I suck it up and do the test, just drop this and not go further with the process (I'm actually pretty interested in working for them), or try to communicate my doubts to them? How?
Thank you!
interviewing germany test
interviewing germany test
New contributor
New contributor
New contributor
asked 6 hours ago
Mynt
8913
8913
New contributor
New contributor
31
You should stay away from any test that doesn't seem appropriate to you. Just walk away.
– Joe Strazzere
6 hours ago
19
This is a massive red flag for what working for them would be like. They're desperate, unethical, or both.
– Dark Matter
6 hours ago
9
How can they be asking you for an estimation without telling you the amount of ressources, the "good practices" in place on their project, the delivery procedure, the feature complexity referential, etc... An estimation of "1" in terms of complexity/workload depends from a project to an other. Other than that, it's not the PM's duty to do estimation !!!!
– Answers_Seeker
6 hours ago
8
In general, stay away from gaming companies. Many suck in young developers, get the last drop of blood out of them, and spit them out. This one sucks before you even started.
– gnasher729
6 hours ago
1
I don't see how you could even do this, without some intimate knowledge of their product, development process and the resources they have available. Which you won't know unless you actually start working there.
– Time4Tea
3 hours ago
|
show 3 more comments
31
You should stay away from any test that doesn't seem appropriate to you. Just walk away.
– Joe Strazzere
6 hours ago
19
This is a massive red flag for what working for them would be like. They're desperate, unethical, or both.
– Dark Matter
6 hours ago
9
How can they be asking you for an estimation without telling you the amount of ressources, the "good practices" in place on their project, the delivery procedure, the feature complexity referential, etc... An estimation of "1" in terms of complexity/workload depends from a project to an other. Other than that, it's not the PM's duty to do estimation !!!!
– Answers_Seeker
6 hours ago
8
In general, stay away from gaming companies. Many suck in young developers, get the last drop of blood out of them, and spit them out. This one sucks before you even started.
– gnasher729
6 hours ago
1
I don't see how you could even do this, without some intimate knowledge of their product, development process and the resources they have available. Which you won't know unless you actually start working there.
– Time4Tea
3 hours ago
31
31
You should stay away from any test that doesn't seem appropriate to you. Just walk away.
– Joe Strazzere
6 hours ago
You should stay away from any test that doesn't seem appropriate to you. Just walk away.
– Joe Strazzere
6 hours ago
19
19
This is a massive red flag for what working for them would be like. They're desperate, unethical, or both.
– Dark Matter
6 hours ago
This is a massive red flag for what working for them would be like. They're desperate, unethical, or both.
– Dark Matter
6 hours ago
9
9
How can they be asking you for an estimation without telling you the amount of ressources, the "good practices" in place on their project, the delivery procedure, the feature complexity referential, etc... An estimation of "1" in terms of complexity/workload depends from a project to an other. Other than that, it's not the PM's duty to do estimation !!!!
– Answers_Seeker
6 hours ago
How can they be asking you for an estimation without telling you the amount of ressources, the "good practices" in place on their project, the delivery procedure, the feature complexity referential, etc... An estimation of "1" in terms of complexity/workload depends from a project to an other. Other than that, it's not the PM's duty to do estimation !!!!
– Answers_Seeker
6 hours ago
8
8
In general, stay away from gaming companies. Many suck in young developers, get the last drop of blood out of them, and spit them out. This one sucks before you even started.
– gnasher729
6 hours ago
In general, stay away from gaming companies. Many suck in young developers, get the last drop of blood out of them, and spit them out. This one sucks before you even started.
– gnasher729
6 hours ago
1
1
I don't see how you could even do this, without some intimate knowledge of their product, development process and the resources they have available. Which you won't know unless you actually start working there.
– Time4Tea
3 hours ago
I don't see how you could even do this, without some intimate knowledge of their product, development process and the resources they have available. Which you won't know unless you actually start working there.
– Time4Tea
3 hours ago
|
show 3 more comments
4 Answers
4
active
oldest
votes
up vote
21
down vote
Unfortunately, companies using "interviews" as free work is not something new, it's been going on for over a decade that I know of.
It's not just small shops that pull it either. A friend of mine was being "interviewed" by one of the big financial companies, and they kept trying to get details from him on a previous project. He kept on pushing back until he finally said
Hire me, and I'll tell you everything you want to know.
Then they had the nerve to report back to the recruiter that he was rude.
IF something doesn't feel right, don't do it. This might not be a scam, but if it doesn't pass the smell test, then it wouldn't be a company you'd want to work with anyway.
1
Well,Hire me, and I'll tell you everything you want to know.
does sound (to me) like FRO, but couched in polite words. :-)
– Peter K.
4 hours ago
5
@PeterK. FRO? never heard that one before.
– Richard U
4 hours ago
2
@RichardU Sound like FRO is probably GFY (Go F*** Yourself) but different words
– Ertai87
3 hours ago
4
@RichardU F*** right off, would be my guess.
– Minix
2 hours ago
add a comment |
up vote
4
down vote
If you estimate the work would take a week to properly do, and suspect they're looking for free labor, then you basically have one of three choices.
Do the work, but make it lack value. This shows you can do the work, but doesn't further the goals of the company. For example, you could take a different game, one that has nearly no value, and show how you'd add three features to it. (I'm thinking tic-tac-toe, or something so saturated it's not a money maker anymore, like Tetris) The risks are they might not accept the work as a proper response to what they requested, and such feedback (while expensive to you) is pretty indicative of their intent.
Describe the work that would be done, instead of performing it, indicating how long each phase of the work you would have performed would have taken, detailing the resulting products, with mock (incorrect) output. The positives of this is that it clearly demonstrates you know the "process to plan and manage" such items. Again, this is a lot of work, and the cost / benefit might not be there for you.
Describe the estimated effort of the work, and suggest that they send something that can be accomplished in under some-number-you-can-bear hours. Indicate that if you attempted to perform the work in the number of hours you'd be willing to do for free, the work would be sloppy, rushed, or incomplete, and that wouldn't reflect your skills or ability in a professional manner.
Just move on, and don't give the work a second thought.
It is all a matter of how much you are willing to put into the hiring process. I fully agree, this request seems to weigh far too heavily on your time, and after it is performed, there is no guarantee any job is waiting. That said, every hiring process demands some effort, and it is a very personal choice how much effort a person will tolerate, especially if the job seems to be better than most.
Yes, I agree, they're probably looking for free labor; but, you can still present yourself as capable without contributing to their success for free. It's just not clear whether it makes sense for you.
add a comment |
up vote
3
down vote
Now there are some details missing, but to me this doesn't seem like necessarily a huge task. And less a question of how well you can plan down to all the details but more on how you manage tasks with limited time.
I'd invest just as much as you'd be normally willing to invest in an interview task and along with the result give them the time spent.
The result could be very coarse, but I'd think that is okay. They might not be interested in the details but might want to see that you know how a development cycle roughly looks, what components it has (development, testing, bugfixing etc), how you can maximise the value generated, e.g. by having departments work in different stages of each feature in parallel (developers can write the next feature while the first is tested, etc.). And the "real" interview might be asking questions based on your plan and how to get from the rough concept to all the nasty details.
Seeing it at that level, I'd also consider it so generic that it wouldn't be working for free.
If you do this and that's not enough for them, then fair enough, you only invested what you would be investing for a task you considered "reasonable". If you get the job, well invested time.
add a comment |
up vote
1
down vote
Some companies usually send big tests to filter candidates who will not be willing to do the task just because it's big and will take more time than usually it does.
This way the company will have less candidates to evaluate, and each candidate will have some degree of perseverance, and it'll show the candidate is really interested in the position.
But, the test can't have business value. It can't look like free work. It must be a task designed to the only purpose of test the candidate skills. Nothing more. Also, it must respect the candidate's free time.
A 6-to-12 hour task is ok. Candidate can take about 2 or 3 days to do it on his/her free time.
New contributor
No down vote from me, but any task that takes that long is just showing disrespect for a candidate.
– Richard U
24 mins ago
add a comment |
StackExchange.ready(function () {
$("#show-editor-button input, #show-editor-button button").click(function () {
var showEditor = function() {
$("#show-editor-button").hide();
$("#post-form").removeClass("dno");
StackExchange.editor.finallyInit();
};
var useFancy = $(this).data('confirm-use-fancy');
if(useFancy == 'True') {
var popupTitle = $(this).data('confirm-fancy-title');
var popupBody = $(this).data('confirm-fancy-body');
var popupAccept = $(this).data('confirm-fancy-accept-button');
$(this).loadPopup({
url: '/post/self-answer-popup',
loaded: function(popup) {
var pTitle = $(popup).find('h2');
var pBody = $(popup).find('.popup-body');
var pSubmit = $(popup).find('.popup-submit');
pTitle.text(popupTitle);
pBody.html(popupBody);
pSubmit.val(popupAccept).click(showEditor);
}
})
} else{
var confirmText = $(this).data('confirm-text');
if (confirmText ? confirm(confirmText) : true) {
showEditor();
}
}
});
});
4 Answers
4
active
oldest
votes
4 Answers
4
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
21
down vote
Unfortunately, companies using "interviews" as free work is not something new, it's been going on for over a decade that I know of.
It's not just small shops that pull it either. A friend of mine was being "interviewed" by one of the big financial companies, and they kept trying to get details from him on a previous project. He kept on pushing back until he finally said
Hire me, and I'll tell you everything you want to know.
Then they had the nerve to report back to the recruiter that he was rude.
IF something doesn't feel right, don't do it. This might not be a scam, but if it doesn't pass the smell test, then it wouldn't be a company you'd want to work with anyway.
1
Well,Hire me, and I'll tell you everything you want to know.
does sound (to me) like FRO, but couched in polite words. :-)
– Peter K.
4 hours ago
5
@PeterK. FRO? never heard that one before.
– Richard U
4 hours ago
2
@RichardU Sound like FRO is probably GFY (Go F*** Yourself) but different words
– Ertai87
3 hours ago
4
@RichardU F*** right off, would be my guess.
– Minix
2 hours ago
add a comment |
up vote
21
down vote
Unfortunately, companies using "interviews" as free work is not something new, it's been going on for over a decade that I know of.
It's not just small shops that pull it either. A friend of mine was being "interviewed" by one of the big financial companies, and they kept trying to get details from him on a previous project. He kept on pushing back until he finally said
Hire me, and I'll tell you everything you want to know.
Then they had the nerve to report back to the recruiter that he was rude.
IF something doesn't feel right, don't do it. This might not be a scam, but if it doesn't pass the smell test, then it wouldn't be a company you'd want to work with anyway.
1
Well,Hire me, and I'll tell you everything you want to know.
does sound (to me) like FRO, but couched in polite words. :-)
– Peter K.
4 hours ago
5
@PeterK. FRO? never heard that one before.
– Richard U
4 hours ago
2
@RichardU Sound like FRO is probably GFY (Go F*** Yourself) but different words
– Ertai87
3 hours ago
4
@RichardU F*** right off, would be my guess.
– Minix
2 hours ago
add a comment |
up vote
21
down vote
up vote
21
down vote
Unfortunately, companies using "interviews" as free work is not something new, it's been going on for over a decade that I know of.
It's not just small shops that pull it either. A friend of mine was being "interviewed" by one of the big financial companies, and they kept trying to get details from him on a previous project. He kept on pushing back until he finally said
Hire me, and I'll tell you everything you want to know.
Then they had the nerve to report back to the recruiter that he was rude.
IF something doesn't feel right, don't do it. This might not be a scam, but if it doesn't pass the smell test, then it wouldn't be a company you'd want to work with anyway.
Unfortunately, companies using "interviews" as free work is not something new, it's been going on for over a decade that I know of.
It's not just small shops that pull it either. A friend of mine was being "interviewed" by one of the big financial companies, and they kept trying to get details from him on a previous project. He kept on pushing back until he finally said
Hire me, and I'll tell you everything you want to know.
Then they had the nerve to report back to the recruiter that he was rude.
IF something doesn't feel right, don't do it. This might not be a scam, but if it doesn't pass the smell test, then it wouldn't be a company you'd want to work with anyway.
answered 5 hours ago
Richard U
84.2k62217332
84.2k62217332
1
Well,Hire me, and I'll tell you everything you want to know.
does sound (to me) like FRO, but couched in polite words. :-)
– Peter K.
4 hours ago
5
@PeterK. FRO? never heard that one before.
– Richard U
4 hours ago
2
@RichardU Sound like FRO is probably GFY (Go F*** Yourself) but different words
– Ertai87
3 hours ago
4
@RichardU F*** right off, would be my guess.
– Minix
2 hours ago
add a comment |
1
Well,Hire me, and I'll tell you everything you want to know.
does sound (to me) like FRO, but couched in polite words. :-)
– Peter K.
4 hours ago
5
@PeterK. FRO? never heard that one before.
– Richard U
4 hours ago
2
@RichardU Sound like FRO is probably GFY (Go F*** Yourself) but different words
– Ertai87
3 hours ago
4
@RichardU F*** right off, would be my guess.
– Minix
2 hours ago
1
1
Well,
Hire me, and I'll tell you everything you want to know.
does sound (to me) like FRO, but couched in polite words. :-)– Peter K.
4 hours ago
Well,
Hire me, and I'll tell you everything you want to know.
does sound (to me) like FRO, but couched in polite words. :-)– Peter K.
4 hours ago
5
5
@PeterK. FRO? never heard that one before.
– Richard U
4 hours ago
@PeterK. FRO? never heard that one before.
– Richard U
4 hours ago
2
2
@RichardU Sound like FRO is probably GFY (Go F*** Yourself) but different words
– Ertai87
3 hours ago
@RichardU Sound like FRO is probably GFY (Go F*** Yourself) but different words
– Ertai87
3 hours ago
4
4
@RichardU F*** right off, would be my guess.
– Minix
2 hours ago
@RichardU F*** right off, would be my guess.
– Minix
2 hours ago
add a comment |
up vote
4
down vote
If you estimate the work would take a week to properly do, and suspect they're looking for free labor, then you basically have one of three choices.
Do the work, but make it lack value. This shows you can do the work, but doesn't further the goals of the company. For example, you could take a different game, one that has nearly no value, and show how you'd add three features to it. (I'm thinking tic-tac-toe, or something so saturated it's not a money maker anymore, like Tetris) The risks are they might not accept the work as a proper response to what they requested, and such feedback (while expensive to you) is pretty indicative of their intent.
Describe the work that would be done, instead of performing it, indicating how long each phase of the work you would have performed would have taken, detailing the resulting products, with mock (incorrect) output. The positives of this is that it clearly demonstrates you know the "process to plan and manage" such items. Again, this is a lot of work, and the cost / benefit might not be there for you.
Describe the estimated effort of the work, and suggest that they send something that can be accomplished in under some-number-you-can-bear hours. Indicate that if you attempted to perform the work in the number of hours you'd be willing to do for free, the work would be sloppy, rushed, or incomplete, and that wouldn't reflect your skills or ability in a professional manner.
Just move on, and don't give the work a second thought.
It is all a matter of how much you are willing to put into the hiring process. I fully agree, this request seems to weigh far too heavily on your time, and after it is performed, there is no guarantee any job is waiting. That said, every hiring process demands some effort, and it is a very personal choice how much effort a person will tolerate, especially if the job seems to be better than most.
Yes, I agree, they're probably looking for free labor; but, you can still present yourself as capable without contributing to their success for free. It's just not clear whether it makes sense for you.
add a comment |
up vote
4
down vote
If you estimate the work would take a week to properly do, and suspect they're looking for free labor, then you basically have one of three choices.
Do the work, but make it lack value. This shows you can do the work, but doesn't further the goals of the company. For example, you could take a different game, one that has nearly no value, and show how you'd add three features to it. (I'm thinking tic-tac-toe, or something so saturated it's not a money maker anymore, like Tetris) The risks are they might not accept the work as a proper response to what they requested, and such feedback (while expensive to you) is pretty indicative of their intent.
Describe the work that would be done, instead of performing it, indicating how long each phase of the work you would have performed would have taken, detailing the resulting products, with mock (incorrect) output. The positives of this is that it clearly demonstrates you know the "process to plan and manage" such items. Again, this is a lot of work, and the cost / benefit might not be there for you.
Describe the estimated effort of the work, and suggest that they send something that can be accomplished in under some-number-you-can-bear hours. Indicate that if you attempted to perform the work in the number of hours you'd be willing to do for free, the work would be sloppy, rushed, or incomplete, and that wouldn't reflect your skills or ability in a professional manner.
Just move on, and don't give the work a second thought.
It is all a matter of how much you are willing to put into the hiring process. I fully agree, this request seems to weigh far too heavily on your time, and after it is performed, there is no guarantee any job is waiting. That said, every hiring process demands some effort, and it is a very personal choice how much effort a person will tolerate, especially if the job seems to be better than most.
Yes, I agree, they're probably looking for free labor; but, you can still present yourself as capable without contributing to their success for free. It's just not clear whether it makes sense for you.
add a comment |
up vote
4
down vote
up vote
4
down vote
If you estimate the work would take a week to properly do, and suspect they're looking for free labor, then you basically have one of three choices.
Do the work, but make it lack value. This shows you can do the work, but doesn't further the goals of the company. For example, you could take a different game, one that has nearly no value, and show how you'd add three features to it. (I'm thinking tic-tac-toe, or something so saturated it's not a money maker anymore, like Tetris) The risks are they might not accept the work as a proper response to what they requested, and such feedback (while expensive to you) is pretty indicative of their intent.
Describe the work that would be done, instead of performing it, indicating how long each phase of the work you would have performed would have taken, detailing the resulting products, with mock (incorrect) output. The positives of this is that it clearly demonstrates you know the "process to plan and manage" such items. Again, this is a lot of work, and the cost / benefit might not be there for you.
Describe the estimated effort of the work, and suggest that they send something that can be accomplished in under some-number-you-can-bear hours. Indicate that if you attempted to perform the work in the number of hours you'd be willing to do for free, the work would be sloppy, rushed, or incomplete, and that wouldn't reflect your skills or ability in a professional manner.
Just move on, and don't give the work a second thought.
It is all a matter of how much you are willing to put into the hiring process. I fully agree, this request seems to weigh far too heavily on your time, and after it is performed, there is no guarantee any job is waiting. That said, every hiring process demands some effort, and it is a very personal choice how much effort a person will tolerate, especially if the job seems to be better than most.
Yes, I agree, they're probably looking for free labor; but, you can still present yourself as capable without contributing to their success for free. It's just not clear whether it makes sense for you.
If you estimate the work would take a week to properly do, and suspect they're looking for free labor, then you basically have one of three choices.
Do the work, but make it lack value. This shows you can do the work, but doesn't further the goals of the company. For example, you could take a different game, one that has nearly no value, and show how you'd add three features to it. (I'm thinking tic-tac-toe, or something so saturated it's not a money maker anymore, like Tetris) The risks are they might not accept the work as a proper response to what they requested, and such feedback (while expensive to you) is pretty indicative of their intent.
Describe the work that would be done, instead of performing it, indicating how long each phase of the work you would have performed would have taken, detailing the resulting products, with mock (incorrect) output. The positives of this is that it clearly demonstrates you know the "process to plan and manage" such items. Again, this is a lot of work, and the cost / benefit might not be there for you.
Describe the estimated effort of the work, and suggest that they send something that can be accomplished in under some-number-you-can-bear hours. Indicate that if you attempted to perform the work in the number of hours you'd be willing to do for free, the work would be sloppy, rushed, or incomplete, and that wouldn't reflect your skills or ability in a professional manner.
Just move on, and don't give the work a second thought.
It is all a matter of how much you are willing to put into the hiring process. I fully agree, this request seems to weigh far too heavily on your time, and after it is performed, there is no guarantee any job is waiting. That said, every hiring process demands some effort, and it is a very personal choice how much effort a person will tolerate, especially if the job seems to be better than most.
Yes, I agree, they're probably looking for free labor; but, you can still present yourself as capable without contributing to their success for free. It's just not clear whether it makes sense for you.
answered 3 hours ago
Edwin Buck
1,8851015
1,8851015
add a comment |
add a comment |
up vote
3
down vote
Now there are some details missing, but to me this doesn't seem like necessarily a huge task. And less a question of how well you can plan down to all the details but more on how you manage tasks with limited time.
I'd invest just as much as you'd be normally willing to invest in an interview task and along with the result give them the time spent.
The result could be very coarse, but I'd think that is okay. They might not be interested in the details but might want to see that you know how a development cycle roughly looks, what components it has (development, testing, bugfixing etc), how you can maximise the value generated, e.g. by having departments work in different stages of each feature in parallel (developers can write the next feature while the first is tested, etc.). And the "real" interview might be asking questions based on your plan and how to get from the rough concept to all the nasty details.
Seeing it at that level, I'd also consider it so generic that it wouldn't be working for free.
If you do this and that's not enough for them, then fair enough, you only invested what you would be investing for a task you considered "reasonable". If you get the job, well invested time.
add a comment |
up vote
3
down vote
Now there are some details missing, but to me this doesn't seem like necessarily a huge task. And less a question of how well you can plan down to all the details but more on how you manage tasks with limited time.
I'd invest just as much as you'd be normally willing to invest in an interview task and along with the result give them the time spent.
The result could be very coarse, but I'd think that is okay. They might not be interested in the details but might want to see that you know how a development cycle roughly looks, what components it has (development, testing, bugfixing etc), how you can maximise the value generated, e.g. by having departments work in different stages of each feature in parallel (developers can write the next feature while the first is tested, etc.). And the "real" interview might be asking questions based on your plan and how to get from the rough concept to all the nasty details.
Seeing it at that level, I'd also consider it so generic that it wouldn't be working for free.
If you do this and that's not enough for them, then fair enough, you only invested what you would be investing for a task you considered "reasonable". If you get the job, well invested time.
add a comment |
up vote
3
down vote
up vote
3
down vote
Now there are some details missing, but to me this doesn't seem like necessarily a huge task. And less a question of how well you can plan down to all the details but more on how you manage tasks with limited time.
I'd invest just as much as you'd be normally willing to invest in an interview task and along with the result give them the time spent.
The result could be very coarse, but I'd think that is okay. They might not be interested in the details but might want to see that you know how a development cycle roughly looks, what components it has (development, testing, bugfixing etc), how you can maximise the value generated, e.g. by having departments work in different stages of each feature in parallel (developers can write the next feature while the first is tested, etc.). And the "real" interview might be asking questions based on your plan and how to get from the rough concept to all the nasty details.
Seeing it at that level, I'd also consider it so generic that it wouldn't be working for free.
If you do this and that's not enough for them, then fair enough, you only invested what you would be investing for a task you considered "reasonable". If you get the job, well invested time.
Now there are some details missing, but to me this doesn't seem like necessarily a huge task. And less a question of how well you can plan down to all the details but more on how you manage tasks with limited time.
I'd invest just as much as you'd be normally willing to invest in an interview task and along with the result give them the time spent.
The result could be very coarse, but I'd think that is okay. They might not be interested in the details but might want to see that you know how a development cycle roughly looks, what components it has (development, testing, bugfixing etc), how you can maximise the value generated, e.g. by having departments work in different stages of each feature in parallel (developers can write the next feature while the first is tested, etc.). And the "real" interview might be asking questions based on your plan and how to get from the rough concept to all the nasty details.
Seeing it at that level, I'd also consider it so generic that it wouldn't be working for free.
If you do this and that's not enough for them, then fair enough, you only invested what you would be investing for a task you considered "reasonable". If you get the job, well invested time.
answered 3 hours ago
Darkwing
1,522212
1,522212
add a comment |
add a comment |
up vote
1
down vote
Some companies usually send big tests to filter candidates who will not be willing to do the task just because it's big and will take more time than usually it does.
This way the company will have less candidates to evaluate, and each candidate will have some degree of perseverance, and it'll show the candidate is really interested in the position.
But, the test can't have business value. It can't look like free work. It must be a task designed to the only purpose of test the candidate skills. Nothing more. Also, it must respect the candidate's free time.
A 6-to-12 hour task is ok. Candidate can take about 2 or 3 days to do it on his/her free time.
New contributor
No down vote from me, but any task that takes that long is just showing disrespect for a candidate.
– Richard U
24 mins ago
add a comment |
up vote
1
down vote
Some companies usually send big tests to filter candidates who will not be willing to do the task just because it's big and will take more time than usually it does.
This way the company will have less candidates to evaluate, and each candidate will have some degree of perseverance, and it'll show the candidate is really interested in the position.
But, the test can't have business value. It can't look like free work. It must be a task designed to the only purpose of test the candidate skills. Nothing more. Also, it must respect the candidate's free time.
A 6-to-12 hour task is ok. Candidate can take about 2 or 3 days to do it on his/her free time.
New contributor
No down vote from me, but any task that takes that long is just showing disrespect for a candidate.
– Richard U
24 mins ago
add a comment |
up vote
1
down vote
up vote
1
down vote
Some companies usually send big tests to filter candidates who will not be willing to do the task just because it's big and will take more time than usually it does.
This way the company will have less candidates to evaluate, and each candidate will have some degree of perseverance, and it'll show the candidate is really interested in the position.
But, the test can't have business value. It can't look like free work. It must be a task designed to the only purpose of test the candidate skills. Nothing more. Also, it must respect the candidate's free time.
A 6-to-12 hour task is ok. Candidate can take about 2 or 3 days to do it on his/her free time.
New contributor
Some companies usually send big tests to filter candidates who will not be willing to do the task just because it's big and will take more time than usually it does.
This way the company will have less candidates to evaluate, and each candidate will have some degree of perseverance, and it'll show the candidate is really interested in the position.
But, the test can't have business value. It can't look like free work. It must be a task designed to the only purpose of test the candidate skills. Nothing more. Also, it must respect the candidate's free time.
A 6-to-12 hour task is ok. Candidate can take about 2 or 3 days to do it on his/her free time.
New contributor
New contributor
answered 41 mins ago
Daniel Ribeiro
111
111
New contributor
New contributor
No down vote from me, but any task that takes that long is just showing disrespect for a candidate.
– Richard U
24 mins ago
add a comment |
No down vote from me, but any task that takes that long is just showing disrespect for a candidate.
– Richard U
24 mins ago
No down vote from me, but any task that takes that long is just showing disrespect for a candidate.
– Richard U
24 mins ago
No down vote from me, but any task that takes that long is just showing disrespect for a candidate.
– Richard U
24 mins ago
add a comment |
Mynt is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
Mynt is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
Mynt is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
Mynt is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
Thanks for contributing an answer to The Workplace Stack Exchange!
- Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!
But avoid …
- Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.
- Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.
To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.
Some of your past answers have not been well-received, and you're in danger of being blocked from answering.
Please pay close attention to the following guidance:
- Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!
But avoid …
- Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.
- Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.
To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function () {
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fworkplace.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f124554%2fhuge-interview-test-seems-like-real-free-work-for-the-company%23new-answer', 'question_page');
}
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
31
You should stay away from any test that doesn't seem appropriate to you. Just walk away.
– Joe Strazzere
6 hours ago
19
This is a massive red flag for what working for them would be like. They're desperate, unethical, or both.
– Dark Matter
6 hours ago
9
How can they be asking you for an estimation without telling you the amount of ressources, the "good practices" in place on their project, the delivery procedure, the feature complexity referential, etc... An estimation of "1" in terms of complexity/workload depends from a project to an other. Other than that, it's not the PM's duty to do estimation !!!!
– Answers_Seeker
6 hours ago
8
In general, stay away from gaming companies. Many suck in young developers, get the last drop of blood out of them, and spit them out. This one sucks before you even started.
– gnasher729
6 hours ago
1
I don't see how you could even do this, without some intimate knowledge of their product, development process and the resources they have available. Which you won't know unless you actually start working there.
– Time4Tea
3 hours ago