I'm in a religious country, and my religious supervisor is praying, what should I do?
up vote
30
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My supervisor and all his other doctoral students are religious practicing, while I don't, as a "non-religious".
We never discuss religion together, but sometimes they all leave to pray together, and they let me alone which make me uncomfortable.
Surely, if they know I'm "non-religious" it will annoy them.
How do I react to a situation in which they all go to pray except me?
Do you think I have to open this debate with them, and close it once and for all?
Should I to pretend to be like them, pray with them?
EDIT: I am in a predominantly Muslim country, MENA, and not being Muslim is not very welcomed in general. For example, eating during the month of Ramadan is not legal, and can be a source of physical or mental violence in the street. So even if my supervisor is kind enough as well as his other doctoral student, but they will be disappointed if he know my situation.
supervision religious-issues
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up vote
30
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My supervisor and all his other doctoral students are religious practicing, while I don't, as a "non-religious".
We never discuss religion together, but sometimes they all leave to pray together, and they let me alone which make me uncomfortable.
Surely, if they know I'm "non-religious" it will annoy them.
How do I react to a situation in which they all go to pray except me?
Do you think I have to open this debate with them, and close it once and for all?
Should I to pretend to be like them, pray with them?
EDIT: I am in a predominantly Muslim country, MENA, and not being Muslim is not very welcomed in general. For example, eating during the month of Ramadan is not legal, and can be a source of physical or mental violence in the street. So even if my supervisor is kind enough as well as his other doctoral student, but they will be disappointed if he know my situation.
supervision religious-issues
New contributor
52
Aren’t they leaving to go pray somewhere else to not make you feel uncomfortable?
– Jon Custer
yesterday
7
While I don't know your location, my default answer to this would be "no, you should not do anything that makes you uncomfortable and surely not pretend to be religious in front of your supervisor or anybody else". The nuances on how to deal with this might be easier to suggest if you give us some hint of your location. But, what I'm really interested in is your statement that "Surely if they knew I am not religious it will annoy them" - how do you know that? Have you seen them treat non-religious students unfavourably, is it your funded or unfunded assumption, or something else?
– penelope
yesterday
12
I feel this question requires a much more precise location. Muslim countries vary wildly regarding the tolerance of non religious people. While in some of these countries it would be fine to "come out", in many of these you could be risking your life or your scholarship. So obviously whether or not talking to your supervisor is appropriate depends completely in which case you are. MENA is huge, so it does not really say much about which possibility you are in.
– Bakuriu
23 hours ago
9
@penelope: No that is bad advice. One must consider the repercussions of publicly denying religion in countries whose population will react badly to it. One might even have to pretend to be religious to preserve one's own life, especially if one intends to eventually leave such a country. It is really a waste to sacrifice unnecessarily.
– user21820
9 hours ago
5
If you don't go pray with them, how did they not figure out yet that you are not religious? Do they think you pray alone at a different time?
– idkfa
9 hours ago
|
show 14 more comments
up vote
30
down vote
favorite
up vote
30
down vote
favorite
My supervisor and all his other doctoral students are religious practicing, while I don't, as a "non-religious".
We never discuss religion together, but sometimes they all leave to pray together, and they let me alone which make me uncomfortable.
Surely, if they know I'm "non-religious" it will annoy them.
How do I react to a situation in which they all go to pray except me?
Do you think I have to open this debate with them, and close it once and for all?
Should I to pretend to be like them, pray with them?
EDIT: I am in a predominantly Muslim country, MENA, and not being Muslim is not very welcomed in general. For example, eating during the month of Ramadan is not legal, and can be a source of physical or mental violence in the street. So even if my supervisor is kind enough as well as his other doctoral student, but they will be disappointed if he know my situation.
supervision religious-issues
New contributor
My supervisor and all his other doctoral students are religious practicing, while I don't, as a "non-religious".
We never discuss religion together, but sometimes they all leave to pray together, and they let me alone which make me uncomfortable.
Surely, if they know I'm "non-religious" it will annoy them.
How do I react to a situation in which they all go to pray except me?
Do you think I have to open this debate with them, and close it once and for all?
Should I to pretend to be like them, pray with them?
EDIT: I am in a predominantly Muslim country, MENA, and not being Muslim is not very welcomed in general. For example, eating during the month of Ramadan is not legal, and can be a source of physical or mental violence in the street. So even if my supervisor is kind enough as well as his other doctoral student, but they will be disappointed if he know my situation.
supervision religious-issues
supervision religious-issues
New contributor
New contributor
edited 1 hour ago
Azor Ahai
3,45911734
3,45911734
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asked yesterday
Motaka
30838
30838
New contributor
New contributor
52
Aren’t they leaving to go pray somewhere else to not make you feel uncomfortable?
– Jon Custer
yesterday
7
While I don't know your location, my default answer to this would be "no, you should not do anything that makes you uncomfortable and surely not pretend to be religious in front of your supervisor or anybody else". The nuances on how to deal with this might be easier to suggest if you give us some hint of your location. But, what I'm really interested in is your statement that "Surely if they knew I am not religious it will annoy them" - how do you know that? Have you seen them treat non-religious students unfavourably, is it your funded or unfunded assumption, or something else?
– penelope
yesterday
12
I feel this question requires a much more precise location. Muslim countries vary wildly regarding the tolerance of non religious people. While in some of these countries it would be fine to "come out", in many of these you could be risking your life or your scholarship. So obviously whether or not talking to your supervisor is appropriate depends completely in which case you are. MENA is huge, so it does not really say much about which possibility you are in.
– Bakuriu
23 hours ago
9
@penelope: No that is bad advice. One must consider the repercussions of publicly denying religion in countries whose population will react badly to it. One might even have to pretend to be religious to preserve one's own life, especially if one intends to eventually leave such a country. It is really a waste to sacrifice unnecessarily.
– user21820
9 hours ago
5
If you don't go pray with them, how did they not figure out yet that you are not religious? Do they think you pray alone at a different time?
– idkfa
9 hours ago
|
show 14 more comments
52
Aren’t they leaving to go pray somewhere else to not make you feel uncomfortable?
– Jon Custer
yesterday
7
While I don't know your location, my default answer to this would be "no, you should not do anything that makes you uncomfortable and surely not pretend to be religious in front of your supervisor or anybody else". The nuances on how to deal with this might be easier to suggest if you give us some hint of your location. But, what I'm really interested in is your statement that "Surely if they knew I am not religious it will annoy them" - how do you know that? Have you seen them treat non-religious students unfavourably, is it your funded or unfunded assumption, or something else?
– penelope
yesterday
12
I feel this question requires a much more precise location. Muslim countries vary wildly regarding the tolerance of non religious people. While in some of these countries it would be fine to "come out", in many of these you could be risking your life or your scholarship. So obviously whether or not talking to your supervisor is appropriate depends completely in which case you are. MENA is huge, so it does not really say much about which possibility you are in.
– Bakuriu
23 hours ago
9
@penelope: No that is bad advice. One must consider the repercussions of publicly denying religion in countries whose population will react badly to it. One might even have to pretend to be religious to preserve one's own life, especially if one intends to eventually leave such a country. It is really a waste to sacrifice unnecessarily.
– user21820
9 hours ago
5
If you don't go pray with them, how did they not figure out yet that you are not religious? Do they think you pray alone at a different time?
– idkfa
9 hours ago
52
52
Aren’t they leaving to go pray somewhere else to not make you feel uncomfortable?
– Jon Custer
yesterday
Aren’t they leaving to go pray somewhere else to not make you feel uncomfortable?
– Jon Custer
yesterday
7
7
While I don't know your location, my default answer to this would be "no, you should not do anything that makes you uncomfortable and surely not pretend to be religious in front of your supervisor or anybody else". The nuances on how to deal with this might be easier to suggest if you give us some hint of your location. But, what I'm really interested in is your statement that "Surely if they knew I am not religious it will annoy them" - how do you know that? Have you seen them treat non-religious students unfavourably, is it your funded or unfunded assumption, or something else?
– penelope
yesterday
While I don't know your location, my default answer to this would be "no, you should not do anything that makes you uncomfortable and surely not pretend to be religious in front of your supervisor or anybody else". The nuances on how to deal with this might be easier to suggest if you give us some hint of your location. But, what I'm really interested in is your statement that "Surely if they knew I am not religious it will annoy them" - how do you know that? Have you seen them treat non-religious students unfavourably, is it your funded or unfunded assumption, or something else?
– penelope
yesterday
12
12
I feel this question requires a much more precise location. Muslim countries vary wildly regarding the tolerance of non religious people. While in some of these countries it would be fine to "come out", in many of these you could be risking your life or your scholarship. So obviously whether or not talking to your supervisor is appropriate depends completely in which case you are. MENA is huge, so it does not really say much about which possibility you are in.
– Bakuriu
23 hours ago
I feel this question requires a much more precise location. Muslim countries vary wildly regarding the tolerance of non religious people. While in some of these countries it would be fine to "come out", in many of these you could be risking your life or your scholarship. So obviously whether or not talking to your supervisor is appropriate depends completely in which case you are. MENA is huge, so it does not really say much about which possibility you are in.
– Bakuriu
23 hours ago
9
9
@penelope: No that is bad advice. One must consider the repercussions of publicly denying religion in countries whose population will react badly to it. One might even have to pretend to be religious to preserve one's own life, especially if one intends to eventually leave such a country. It is really a waste to sacrifice unnecessarily.
– user21820
9 hours ago
@penelope: No that is bad advice. One must consider the repercussions of publicly denying religion in countries whose population will react badly to it. One might even have to pretend to be religious to preserve one's own life, especially if one intends to eventually leave such a country. It is really a waste to sacrifice unnecessarily.
– user21820
9 hours ago
5
5
If you don't go pray with them, how did they not figure out yet that you are not religious? Do they think you pray alone at a different time?
– idkfa
9 hours ago
If you don't go pray with them, how did they not figure out yet that you are not religious? Do they think you pray alone at a different time?
– idkfa
9 hours ago
|
show 14 more comments
7 Answers
7
active
oldest
votes
up vote
30
down vote
accepted
There are situations in which you need to be sensitive to others and they should extend the same courtesy to you. However, there are some places in which religious feeling is so strong as to overcome such sentiment. It can be dangerous in many ways (academic, physical,...) to disagree with religious "consensus" in such places. There are some colleges in the US, in fact, in which this is a problem.
However, to "fake" being a member of a religion is equally dangerous, so you need to be careful. I don't know what people's assumptions about you are. But if they are aware that you aren't a member/adherent of the dominant faith you are probably best advised not to participate. If they are not aware and are making assumptions that you are just an apostate then it can be very dangerous.
If your professor has an open enough attitude you can speak with him/her for advice. But the first rule is to be safe. If you are in a place in which you are required to be a "believer" and you are not, you should work to find a more compatible place. Religious sentiment is often other-than-rational.
11
"You should work to find a more compatible place" This is the best solution..Thank you
– Motaka
yesterday
Faking being part of a religion is almost certainly worse than just not being religious -- not only are you not actually religious, but when you're inevitably discovered, you'll have been lying to everyone around you for however long you fake it.
– Nic Hartley
40 mins ago
@NicHartley. It can be extremely dangerous. People die every day because of religious intolerance.
– Buffy
37 mins ago
@Buffy And if they're willing to kill you because you're not religious, how angry do you think they'll be when they find out that you're not religious and you've been lying to them the entire time?
– Nic Hartley
32 mins ago
@NicHartley That depends on a lot of factors. For example, how well you can fake it, and how much people care as long as you are performing the motions. It's hard to prove someone does not believe if they tell you that they do. It may mean you have to restrict yourself in ways that the religion calls for., You may not believe; but as long as you follow the general rules of the religion, it can be far safer to just go along with everyone and keep your (potentially dangerous) thoughts to yourself. Odds are you wouldn't be the only one. If you were formerly devout for example, it's possible.
– JMac
16 mins ago
|
show 2 more comments
up vote
34
down vote
I grew up in a Muslim-majority country. Do's and don'ts:
Do show respect for their religion. That means avoid doing things like comment on how inconvenient it must be to pray five times a day, don't try to get them to eat non-halal things, don't invite them to lunch during Ramadan, etc.
Do do as they do, if possible and not inconvenient. For example if you take lunch together, order/pack something halal. Unless you have special dietary requirements that require you to eat pork, don't eat pork when with them.
Do dress conservatively. If your institution has a dress code, follow that. If you're female, you can usually refuse to wear the hijab if it makes you uncomfortable (depends on country however), but still dress conservatively - e.g. don't wear something sleeveless.
Don't pretend to be Muslim. You can't fake it. Learning how to pray in the religion takes time; the chant they use is nontrivial as well.
Don't pretend to be Muslim #2: just as important, once you identify as Muslim you could be bound to obey a different set of laws. Sharia criminalizes things which are fine in contemporary Western culture, such as homosexuality. If you're homosexual but identify as Muslim, you could bring the religious police on your head.
Don't pretend to be Muslim #3: Further, depending on which country you're in, you could find it really hard to leave the religion. Potential problems you could face go up to death. In the meantime it's not just you that's affected: in many countries, a Muslim person can only marry another Muslim person; plus any child born to a Muslim is automatically a Muslim.
tl; dr: Leave them to practice their religion and don't flaunt the fact that you're not a Muslim. They should do the same to you.
8
This answer is not correct when the person was originally a Muslim, for the very reason you gave in your last point. In that case it is better to pretend to still be a Muslim until one is ready to take on the consequences of not pretending.
– user21820
9 hours ago
As to point #2, there are shari'a laws that must be obeyed by all -- even if you're a homosexual pantheist. This conservative dressing thing is a case in point. As to #3, that refers mainly to Muslim women who cannot marry non-Muslims (Muslim men can marry Jews and Christians).
– Joseph
2 hours ago
add a comment |
up vote
10
down vote
I also spent a few years in a MENA country in an academic environment. As you say, eating food/drinking water in public during Ramadan was illegal, as were certain standards of dress, however my experience over the years was that this did not in any way mean that the individuals I lived and worked with (including those who were practicing Muslims) were by default unaccepting of my non-religiousness. I am curious why you say
Surely, if they know I'm "non religious" it will annoy them.
and
So even if my supervisor is kind enough as well as his other doctoral student, but they will be disappointed if he know my situation.
Perhaps you have more reason for believing these than you have included in your question, however, in my personal experience, none of my Muslim friends/co-workers ever expected me to conform to their religion. I certainly never pretended to be Muslim, and like other answers, suggest that you do not do this as this is likely to make the situation more awkward ('I converted to fit in' is probably not the best answer to give to an observant member of any religion).
My advice is that perhaps this does not need to a bigger issue than any other lifestyle difference that you might have with your co-workers, and not to read too deeply into it (as in assuming they have some kind of expectation of you), unless they give you reason for it. Government polices do not necessarily reflect individual expectations. By all means, if you feel unhealthy pressure or feel unsafe, don't stay. Otherwise, similar situations where there is a difference in lifestyle/culture between members of the group occur all the time.
Perhaps another group you join might go out regularly for coffee/alcohol when you are unable to join for dietary/religious reasons, or in another group everyone else has kids, so leaves early, or do play-dates on the weekend. But in such situations, the activity you have to miss out on is surely not the only way to build rapport/respect within your group and strengthen your relationship with your supervisor. So if there is no actual pressure for you to have the same religious beliefs, try to decide if you're bothered by their religious belief. If not, then focus your energy on finding some other topic/hobby that you have in common. If both you and they are respectful of differences, there may be no debate to 'open'.
New contributor
I totally agree with you, if you are a foreigner and you work with them, even if you are not religious it will not create any problem, it will be okay.. Here for example the tourists can eat during Ramadan, and the restorants are open for them .. but not to the citizen of the country
– Motaka
10 hours ago
add a comment |
up vote
8
down vote
~Note: I am an American, and while I studied at a largely international college with large populations of all major religions, my answer may not accurately reflect cultural expectations in other countries.~
First of all, I do not think that you should pretend to be religious if you are not. It sounds like it would be quite uncomfortable for you, and could lead to many negative feelings if they found out that you had been lying.
Instead, it sounds like you should have a conversation with your professor. It is not reasonable to ask him or other students to refrain from praying. However, it seems like your biggest concern is that it feels awkward and you do not want them to judge you for being non-religious. The easiest way to deal with this is to tell your professor about your concerns and ask honestly if he is bothered by it.
Tell him that you have noticed that he and the other students go pray together and that you have felt uncomfortable by being the only one who does not because you worry that he could be annoyed or feel disrespected by your lack of participation. He will likely say that it does not bother him that you are not religious, although he may be curious as to why you are not if that is the norm.
At the end of the day, if he is uncomfortable having a non-religious student, he may not be a good fit for you. Knowing that will allow you to decide what to do next. It may be possible to change advisors or it may not, but you won't lose anything by having a polite and honest conversation.
New contributor
Thank you for your answer, as you said, the main thing is to be honest with yourself and with others, but I think It's not to me to open a this discussion, but if they want to discuss someday I will be honest.
– Motaka
yesterday
add a comment |
up vote
7
down vote
I am in the U.S., obviously a very different culture.
The way I think things OUGHT to work is this: If these people you work with have different religious beliefs than you and so periodically go off and pray or do whatever related to their religion, they should not pressure you to participate or penalize you in any way for not participating, and likewise you should not pressure them to not do this. They have the right to practice their religion, and you have the right to practice yours or not practice any.
I don't see why this should be any different than any other difference of interests. Suppose I worked with a group of people who, say, all loved to eat Italian food, and I don't like Italian food, and periodically they all go to lunch together at an Italian restaurant. It would be rude for them to pressure me to eat Italian food just because they like it. But it would be even more rude for me to say they shouldn't eat Italian food because I don't like it, or to complain that I am left out because I don't share their taste in food.
I think you should just accept that you don't share this particular interest with your co-workers and that this inevitably means that you will not share certain activities with them. I'd say, so what?
3
Although I agree with the sentiment expressed in this answer, I don't think it's very helpful to the OP to express the wish that everybody in the world should just get along with everybody regardless of personal beliefs, which is essentially what you're saying, but not the reality everywhere. In particular, the impact of religion on life is vastly greater than the impact of food preferences.
– gerrit
7 hours ago
add a comment |
up vote
1
down vote
how do I react to a situation in which they all go to pray except me?
Do you think I have to open this debate with them, and close it once
and for all? Should I to pretend to be like them, pray with them?
It is up to you. If you feel encouraged to accompany them, then you can tell them to inform you, and tell them that you want to accompany them. Otherwise you should not go even if they invite you, you should tell them not to invite you as you do not prefer to.
Religion is something personal. Even in Muslim countries, no one can force you to pray.
In my opinion you should not open debate about this unless if you are interested about knowing more about what they are doing.
Your supervisor has certain rules and regulations to evaluate you. None of them can be praying. Even in the most religious countries. So you should not worry.
An no, you should not pretend to be like them and pray like them. If you do this, you are wasting your time. Your prayers should have meaning to you, and should make you feel better. If this is not the case with you, no one, including God, need it from you.
"Even in Muslim countries, no one can force you to pray." Are you sure?!
– Alone Programmer
5 mins ago
add a comment |
up vote
0
down vote
It depends on which country you are talking about in the middle east. I'm from Iran and I would say not participating in religious practices is really common among young people and if somebody attends those religious practices will be mocked heavily. For the rest of my answer, I assume you are living somewhere maybe in the Arabic countries of the middle east. Also, my answer is not really depends on your relationship with the ones that have strict religious beliefs (it means you can replace your supervisor or his students with anybody else like your friends, family, etc.). Also, I assume you are a Muslim by born (it means you are Muslim cause your mother and father are Muslims) and then you changed your mind based on your personal thoughts.
The main key point is: is your supervisor or his students ever told you why you don't participate in their religious practices?
It is a really serious problem if you are Muslim by born and when you grew up you changed your mind to not to be a religious person. In fact, in Islam beliefs, it's not like you can change your mind after sometime and they welcome you and wish you good luck with your personal thoughts and ideas! It could cost you your life (seriously!). But as far as I know, their rule is that if somebody don't believe in Islam or for whatever reason changed his/her mind to not follow Islam's rules, you would be safe as long as you don't express your ideas in any way to the public and your society. This means if your supervisor or his students asked you about why you don't participate in their religious practices? You need to have a really unimportant or common reason for it and not saying I don't believe in your beliefs! I mean you should say I'm a practitioner certainly but for some reason like being sick at the moment, I could not attend those practices with you. Otherwise, if you want to express your true beliefs that you don't believe in Islam, it will lead to a lengthy discussion with them about why you don't do it and they will try to convince you and if you don't accept their ideas it makes the problem bigger and bigger. So, for every time just bring a fake reason and move on, or better idea is: to not to be there when they are practicing their religion. Also, Buffy suggested you to change your location. Honestly, it is not really easy to relocate to somewhere else when you are from middle east and it may be your long-term goal rather than a short-time answer to your question and your situation that you are trying to deal with it.
add a comment |
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7 Answers
7
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oldest
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7 Answers
7
active
oldest
votes
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up vote
30
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accepted
There are situations in which you need to be sensitive to others and they should extend the same courtesy to you. However, there are some places in which religious feeling is so strong as to overcome such sentiment. It can be dangerous in many ways (academic, physical,...) to disagree with religious "consensus" in such places. There are some colleges in the US, in fact, in which this is a problem.
However, to "fake" being a member of a religion is equally dangerous, so you need to be careful. I don't know what people's assumptions about you are. But if they are aware that you aren't a member/adherent of the dominant faith you are probably best advised not to participate. If they are not aware and are making assumptions that you are just an apostate then it can be very dangerous.
If your professor has an open enough attitude you can speak with him/her for advice. But the first rule is to be safe. If you are in a place in which you are required to be a "believer" and you are not, you should work to find a more compatible place. Religious sentiment is often other-than-rational.
11
"You should work to find a more compatible place" This is the best solution..Thank you
– Motaka
yesterday
Faking being part of a religion is almost certainly worse than just not being religious -- not only are you not actually religious, but when you're inevitably discovered, you'll have been lying to everyone around you for however long you fake it.
– Nic Hartley
40 mins ago
@NicHartley. It can be extremely dangerous. People die every day because of religious intolerance.
– Buffy
37 mins ago
@Buffy And if they're willing to kill you because you're not religious, how angry do you think they'll be when they find out that you're not religious and you've been lying to them the entire time?
– Nic Hartley
32 mins ago
@NicHartley That depends on a lot of factors. For example, how well you can fake it, and how much people care as long as you are performing the motions. It's hard to prove someone does not believe if they tell you that they do. It may mean you have to restrict yourself in ways that the religion calls for., You may not believe; but as long as you follow the general rules of the religion, it can be far safer to just go along with everyone and keep your (potentially dangerous) thoughts to yourself. Odds are you wouldn't be the only one. If you were formerly devout for example, it's possible.
– JMac
16 mins ago
|
show 2 more comments
up vote
30
down vote
accepted
There are situations in which you need to be sensitive to others and they should extend the same courtesy to you. However, there are some places in which religious feeling is so strong as to overcome such sentiment. It can be dangerous in many ways (academic, physical,...) to disagree with religious "consensus" in such places. There are some colleges in the US, in fact, in which this is a problem.
However, to "fake" being a member of a religion is equally dangerous, so you need to be careful. I don't know what people's assumptions about you are. But if they are aware that you aren't a member/adherent of the dominant faith you are probably best advised not to participate. If they are not aware and are making assumptions that you are just an apostate then it can be very dangerous.
If your professor has an open enough attitude you can speak with him/her for advice. But the first rule is to be safe. If you are in a place in which you are required to be a "believer" and you are not, you should work to find a more compatible place. Religious sentiment is often other-than-rational.
11
"You should work to find a more compatible place" This is the best solution..Thank you
– Motaka
yesterday
Faking being part of a religion is almost certainly worse than just not being religious -- not only are you not actually religious, but when you're inevitably discovered, you'll have been lying to everyone around you for however long you fake it.
– Nic Hartley
40 mins ago
@NicHartley. It can be extremely dangerous. People die every day because of religious intolerance.
– Buffy
37 mins ago
@Buffy And if they're willing to kill you because you're not religious, how angry do you think they'll be when they find out that you're not religious and you've been lying to them the entire time?
– Nic Hartley
32 mins ago
@NicHartley That depends on a lot of factors. For example, how well you can fake it, and how much people care as long as you are performing the motions. It's hard to prove someone does not believe if they tell you that they do. It may mean you have to restrict yourself in ways that the religion calls for., You may not believe; but as long as you follow the general rules of the religion, it can be far safer to just go along with everyone and keep your (potentially dangerous) thoughts to yourself. Odds are you wouldn't be the only one. If you were formerly devout for example, it's possible.
– JMac
16 mins ago
|
show 2 more comments
up vote
30
down vote
accepted
up vote
30
down vote
accepted
There are situations in which you need to be sensitive to others and they should extend the same courtesy to you. However, there are some places in which religious feeling is so strong as to overcome such sentiment. It can be dangerous in many ways (academic, physical,...) to disagree with religious "consensus" in such places. There are some colleges in the US, in fact, in which this is a problem.
However, to "fake" being a member of a religion is equally dangerous, so you need to be careful. I don't know what people's assumptions about you are. But if they are aware that you aren't a member/adherent of the dominant faith you are probably best advised not to participate. If they are not aware and are making assumptions that you are just an apostate then it can be very dangerous.
If your professor has an open enough attitude you can speak with him/her for advice. But the first rule is to be safe. If you are in a place in which you are required to be a "believer" and you are not, you should work to find a more compatible place. Religious sentiment is often other-than-rational.
There are situations in which you need to be sensitive to others and they should extend the same courtesy to you. However, there are some places in which religious feeling is so strong as to overcome such sentiment. It can be dangerous in many ways (academic, physical,...) to disagree with religious "consensus" in such places. There are some colleges in the US, in fact, in which this is a problem.
However, to "fake" being a member of a religion is equally dangerous, so you need to be careful. I don't know what people's assumptions about you are. But if they are aware that you aren't a member/adherent of the dominant faith you are probably best advised not to participate. If they are not aware and are making assumptions that you are just an apostate then it can be very dangerous.
If your professor has an open enough attitude you can speak with him/her for advice. But the first rule is to be safe. If you are in a place in which you are required to be a "believer" and you are not, you should work to find a more compatible place. Religious sentiment is often other-than-rational.
answered yesterday
Buffy
33.5k7104174
33.5k7104174
11
"You should work to find a more compatible place" This is the best solution..Thank you
– Motaka
yesterday
Faking being part of a religion is almost certainly worse than just not being religious -- not only are you not actually religious, but when you're inevitably discovered, you'll have been lying to everyone around you for however long you fake it.
– Nic Hartley
40 mins ago
@NicHartley. It can be extremely dangerous. People die every day because of religious intolerance.
– Buffy
37 mins ago
@Buffy And if they're willing to kill you because you're not religious, how angry do you think they'll be when they find out that you're not religious and you've been lying to them the entire time?
– Nic Hartley
32 mins ago
@NicHartley That depends on a lot of factors. For example, how well you can fake it, and how much people care as long as you are performing the motions. It's hard to prove someone does not believe if they tell you that they do. It may mean you have to restrict yourself in ways that the religion calls for., You may not believe; but as long as you follow the general rules of the religion, it can be far safer to just go along with everyone and keep your (potentially dangerous) thoughts to yourself. Odds are you wouldn't be the only one. If you were formerly devout for example, it's possible.
– JMac
16 mins ago
|
show 2 more comments
11
"You should work to find a more compatible place" This is the best solution..Thank you
– Motaka
yesterday
Faking being part of a religion is almost certainly worse than just not being religious -- not only are you not actually religious, but when you're inevitably discovered, you'll have been lying to everyone around you for however long you fake it.
– Nic Hartley
40 mins ago
@NicHartley. It can be extremely dangerous. People die every day because of religious intolerance.
– Buffy
37 mins ago
@Buffy And if they're willing to kill you because you're not religious, how angry do you think they'll be when they find out that you're not religious and you've been lying to them the entire time?
– Nic Hartley
32 mins ago
@NicHartley That depends on a lot of factors. For example, how well you can fake it, and how much people care as long as you are performing the motions. It's hard to prove someone does not believe if they tell you that they do. It may mean you have to restrict yourself in ways that the religion calls for., You may not believe; but as long as you follow the general rules of the religion, it can be far safer to just go along with everyone and keep your (potentially dangerous) thoughts to yourself. Odds are you wouldn't be the only one. If you were formerly devout for example, it's possible.
– JMac
16 mins ago
11
11
"You should work to find a more compatible place" This is the best solution..Thank you
– Motaka
yesterday
"You should work to find a more compatible place" This is the best solution..Thank you
– Motaka
yesterday
Faking being part of a religion is almost certainly worse than just not being religious -- not only are you not actually religious, but when you're inevitably discovered, you'll have been lying to everyone around you for however long you fake it.
– Nic Hartley
40 mins ago
Faking being part of a religion is almost certainly worse than just not being religious -- not only are you not actually religious, but when you're inevitably discovered, you'll have been lying to everyone around you for however long you fake it.
– Nic Hartley
40 mins ago
@NicHartley. It can be extremely dangerous. People die every day because of religious intolerance.
– Buffy
37 mins ago
@NicHartley. It can be extremely dangerous. People die every day because of religious intolerance.
– Buffy
37 mins ago
@Buffy And if they're willing to kill you because you're not religious, how angry do you think they'll be when they find out that you're not religious and you've been lying to them the entire time?
– Nic Hartley
32 mins ago
@Buffy And if they're willing to kill you because you're not religious, how angry do you think they'll be when they find out that you're not religious and you've been lying to them the entire time?
– Nic Hartley
32 mins ago
@NicHartley That depends on a lot of factors. For example, how well you can fake it, and how much people care as long as you are performing the motions. It's hard to prove someone does not believe if they tell you that they do. It may mean you have to restrict yourself in ways that the religion calls for., You may not believe; but as long as you follow the general rules of the religion, it can be far safer to just go along with everyone and keep your (potentially dangerous) thoughts to yourself. Odds are you wouldn't be the only one. If you were formerly devout for example, it's possible.
– JMac
16 mins ago
@NicHartley That depends on a lot of factors. For example, how well you can fake it, and how much people care as long as you are performing the motions. It's hard to prove someone does not believe if they tell you that they do. It may mean you have to restrict yourself in ways that the religion calls for., You may not believe; but as long as you follow the general rules of the religion, it can be far safer to just go along with everyone and keep your (potentially dangerous) thoughts to yourself. Odds are you wouldn't be the only one. If you were formerly devout for example, it's possible.
– JMac
16 mins ago
|
show 2 more comments
up vote
34
down vote
I grew up in a Muslim-majority country. Do's and don'ts:
Do show respect for their religion. That means avoid doing things like comment on how inconvenient it must be to pray five times a day, don't try to get them to eat non-halal things, don't invite them to lunch during Ramadan, etc.
Do do as they do, if possible and not inconvenient. For example if you take lunch together, order/pack something halal. Unless you have special dietary requirements that require you to eat pork, don't eat pork when with them.
Do dress conservatively. If your institution has a dress code, follow that. If you're female, you can usually refuse to wear the hijab if it makes you uncomfortable (depends on country however), but still dress conservatively - e.g. don't wear something sleeveless.
Don't pretend to be Muslim. You can't fake it. Learning how to pray in the religion takes time; the chant they use is nontrivial as well.
Don't pretend to be Muslim #2: just as important, once you identify as Muslim you could be bound to obey a different set of laws. Sharia criminalizes things which are fine in contemporary Western culture, such as homosexuality. If you're homosexual but identify as Muslim, you could bring the religious police on your head.
Don't pretend to be Muslim #3: Further, depending on which country you're in, you could find it really hard to leave the religion. Potential problems you could face go up to death. In the meantime it's not just you that's affected: in many countries, a Muslim person can only marry another Muslim person; plus any child born to a Muslim is automatically a Muslim.
tl; dr: Leave them to practice their religion and don't flaunt the fact that you're not a Muslim. They should do the same to you.
8
This answer is not correct when the person was originally a Muslim, for the very reason you gave in your last point. In that case it is better to pretend to still be a Muslim until one is ready to take on the consequences of not pretending.
– user21820
9 hours ago
As to point #2, there are shari'a laws that must be obeyed by all -- even if you're a homosexual pantheist. This conservative dressing thing is a case in point. As to #3, that refers mainly to Muslim women who cannot marry non-Muslims (Muslim men can marry Jews and Christians).
– Joseph
2 hours ago
add a comment |
up vote
34
down vote
I grew up in a Muslim-majority country. Do's and don'ts:
Do show respect for their religion. That means avoid doing things like comment on how inconvenient it must be to pray five times a day, don't try to get them to eat non-halal things, don't invite them to lunch during Ramadan, etc.
Do do as they do, if possible and not inconvenient. For example if you take lunch together, order/pack something halal. Unless you have special dietary requirements that require you to eat pork, don't eat pork when with them.
Do dress conservatively. If your institution has a dress code, follow that. If you're female, you can usually refuse to wear the hijab if it makes you uncomfortable (depends on country however), but still dress conservatively - e.g. don't wear something sleeveless.
Don't pretend to be Muslim. You can't fake it. Learning how to pray in the religion takes time; the chant they use is nontrivial as well.
Don't pretend to be Muslim #2: just as important, once you identify as Muslim you could be bound to obey a different set of laws. Sharia criminalizes things which are fine in contemporary Western culture, such as homosexuality. If you're homosexual but identify as Muslim, you could bring the religious police on your head.
Don't pretend to be Muslim #3: Further, depending on which country you're in, you could find it really hard to leave the religion. Potential problems you could face go up to death. In the meantime it's not just you that's affected: in many countries, a Muslim person can only marry another Muslim person; plus any child born to a Muslim is automatically a Muslim.
tl; dr: Leave them to practice their religion and don't flaunt the fact that you're not a Muslim. They should do the same to you.
8
This answer is not correct when the person was originally a Muslim, for the very reason you gave in your last point. In that case it is better to pretend to still be a Muslim until one is ready to take on the consequences of not pretending.
– user21820
9 hours ago
As to point #2, there are shari'a laws that must be obeyed by all -- even if you're a homosexual pantheist. This conservative dressing thing is a case in point. As to #3, that refers mainly to Muslim women who cannot marry non-Muslims (Muslim men can marry Jews and Christians).
– Joseph
2 hours ago
add a comment |
up vote
34
down vote
up vote
34
down vote
I grew up in a Muslim-majority country. Do's and don'ts:
Do show respect for their religion. That means avoid doing things like comment on how inconvenient it must be to pray five times a day, don't try to get them to eat non-halal things, don't invite them to lunch during Ramadan, etc.
Do do as they do, if possible and not inconvenient. For example if you take lunch together, order/pack something halal. Unless you have special dietary requirements that require you to eat pork, don't eat pork when with them.
Do dress conservatively. If your institution has a dress code, follow that. If you're female, you can usually refuse to wear the hijab if it makes you uncomfortable (depends on country however), but still dress conservatively - e.g. don't wear something sleeveless.
Don't pretend to be Muslim. You can't fake it. Learning how to pray in the religion takes time; the chant they use is nontrivial as well.
Don't pretend to be Muslim #2: just as important, once you identify as Muslim you could be bound to obey a different set of laws. Sharia criminalizes things which are fine in contemporary Western culture, such as homosexuality. If you're homosexual but identify as Muslim, you could bring the religious police on your head.
Don't pretend to be Muslim #3: Further, depending on which country you're in, you could find it really hard to leave the religion. Potential problems you could face go up to death. In the meantime it's not just you that's affected: in many countries, a Muslim person can only marry another Muslim person; plus any child born to a Muslim is automatically a Muslim.
tl; dr: Leave them to practice their religion and don't flaunt the fact that you're not a Muslim. They should do the same to you.
I grew up in a Muslim-majority country. Do's and don'ts:
Do show respect for their religion. That means avoid doing things like comment on how inconvenient it must be to pray five times a day, don't try to get them to eat non-halal things, don't invite them to lunch during Ramadan, etc.
Do do as they do, if possible and not inconvenient. For example if you take lunch together, order/pack something halal. Unless you have special dietary requirements that require you to eat pork, don't eat pork when with them.
Do dress conservatively. If your institution has a dress code, follow that. If you're female, you can usually refuse to wear the hijab if it makes you uncomfortable (depends on country however), but still dress conservatively - e.g. don't wear something sleeveless.
Don't pretend to be Muslim. You can't fake it. Learning how to pray in the religion takes time; the chant they use is nontrivial as well.
Don't pretend to be Muslim #2: just as important, once you identify as Muslim you could be bound to obey a different set of laws. Sharia criminalizes things which are fine in contemporary Western culture, such as homosexuality. If you're homosexual but identify as Muslim, you could bring the religious police on your head.
Don't pretend to be Muslim #3: Further, depending on which country you're in, you could find it really hard to leave the religion. Potential problems you could face go up to death. In the meantime it's not just you that's affected: in many countries, a Muslim person can only marry another Muslim person; plus any child born to a Muslim is automatically a Muslim.
tl; dr: Leave them to practice their religion and don't flaunt the fact that you're not a Muslim. They should do the same to you.
answered 21 hours ago
Allure
25.1k1376125
25.1k1376125
8
This answer is not correct when the person was originally a Muslim, for the very reason you gave in your last point. In that case it is better to pretend to still be a Muslim until one is ready to take on the consequences of not pretending.
– user21820
9 hours ago
As to point #2, there are shari'a laws that must be obeyed by all -- even if you're a homosexual pantheist. This conservative dressing thing is a case in point. As to #3, that refers mainly to Muslim women who cannot marry non-Muslims (Muslim men can marry Jews and Christians).
– Joseph
2 hours ago
add a comment |
8
This answer is not correct when the person was originally a Muslim, for the very reason you gave in your last point. In that case it is better to pretend to still be a Muslim until one is ready to take on the consequences of not pretending.
– user21820
9 hours ago
As to point #2, there are shari'a laws that must be obeyed by all -- even if you're a homosexual pantheist. This conservative dressing thing is a case in point. As to #3, that refers mainly to Muslim women who cannot marry non-Muslims (Muslim men can marry Jews and Christians).
– Joseph
2 hours ago
8
8
This answer is not correct when the person was originally a Muslim, for the very reason you gave in your last point. In that case it is better to pretend to still be a Muslim until one is ready to take on the consequences of not pretending.
– user21820
9 hours ago
This answer is not correct when the person was originally a Muslim, for the very reason you gave in your last point. In that case it is better to pretend to still be a Muslim until one is ready to take on the consequences of not pretending.
– user21820
9 hours ago
As to point #2, there are shari'a laws that must be obeyed by all -- even if you're a homosexual pantheist. This conservative dressing thing is a case in point. As to #3, that refers mainly to Muslim women who cannot marry non-Muslims (Muslim men can marry Jews and Christians).
– Joseph
2 hours ago
As to point #2, there are shari'a laws that must be obeyed by all -- even if you're a homosexual pantheist. This conservative dressing thing is a case in point. As to #3, that refers mainly to Muslim women who cannot marry non-Muslims (Muslim men can marry Jews and Christians).
– Joseph
2 hours ago
add a comment |
up vote
10
down vote
I also spent a few years in a MENA country in an academic environment. As you say, eating food/drinking water in public during Ramadan was illegal, as were certain standards of dress, however my experience over the years was that this did not in any way mean that the individuals I lived and worked with (including those who were practicing Muslims) were by default unaccepting of my non-religiousness. I am curious why you say
Surely, if they know I'm "non religious" it will annoy them.
and
So even if my supervisor is kind enough as well as his other doctoral student, but they will be disappointed if he know my situation.
Perhaps you have more reason for believing these than you have included in your question, however, in my personal experience, none of my Muslim friends/co-workers ever expected me to conform to their religion. I certainly never pretended to be Muslim, and like other answers, suggest that you do not do this as this is likely to make the situation more awkward ('I converted to fit in' is probably not the best answer to give to an observant member of any religion).
My advice is that perhaps this does not need to a bigger issue than any other lifestyle difference that you might have with your co-workers, and not to read too deeply into it (as in assuming they have some kind of expectation of you), unless they give you reason for it. Government polices do not necessarily reflect individual expectations. By all means, if you feel unhealthy pressure or feel unsafe, don't stay. Otherwise, similar situations where there is a difference in lifestyle/culture between members of the group occur all the time.
Perhaps another group you join might go out regularly for coffee/alcohol when you are unable to join for dietary/religious reasons, or in another group everyone else has kids, so leaves early, or do play-dates on the weekend. But in such situations, the activity you have to miss out on is surely not the only way to build rapport/respect within your group and strengthen your relationship with your supervisor. So if there is no actual pressure for you to have the same religious beliefs, try to decide if you're bothered by their religious belief. If not, then focus your energy on finding some other topic/hobby that you have in common. If both you and they are respectful of differences, there may be no debate to 'open'.
New contributor
I totally agree with you, if you are a foreigner and you work with them, even if you are not religious it will not create any problem, it will be okay.. Here for example the tourists can eat during Ramadan, and the restorants are open for them .. but not to the citizen of the country
– Motaka
10 hours ago
add a comment |
up vote
10
down vote
I also spent a few years in a MENA country in an academic environment. As you say, eating food/drinking water in public during Ramadan was illegal, as were certain standards of dress, however my experience over the years was that this did not in any way mean that the individuals I lived and worked with (including those who were practicing Muslims) were by default unaccepting of my non-religiousness. I am curious why you say
Surely, if they know I'm "non religious" it will annoy them.
and
So even if my supervisor is kind enough as well as his other doctoral student, but they will be disappointed if he know my situation.
Perhaps you have more reason for believing these than you have included in your question, however, in my personal experience, none of my Muslim friends/co-workers ever expected me to conform to their religion. I certainly never pretended to be Muslim, and like other answers, suggest that you do not do this as this is likely to make the situation more awkward ('I converted to fit in' is probably not the best answer to give to an observant member of any religion).
My advice is that perhaps this does not need to a bigger issue than any other lifestyle difference that you might have with your co-workers, and not to read too deeply into it (as in assuming they have some kind of expectation of you), unless they give you reason for it. Government polices do not necessarily reflect individual expectations. By all means, if you feel unhealthy pressure or feel unsafe, don't stay. Otherwise, similar situations where there is a difference in lifestyle/culture between members of the group occur all the time.
Perhaps another group you join might go out regularly for coffee/alcohol when you are unable to join for dietary/religious reasons, or in another group everyone else has kids, so leaves early, or do play-dates on the weekend. But in such situations, the activity you have to miss out on is surely not the only way to build rapport/respect within your group and strengthen your relationship with your supervisor. So if there is no actual pressure for you to have the same religious beliefs, try to decide if you're bothered by their religious belief. If not, then focus your energy on finding some other topic/hobby that you have in common. If both you and they are respectful of differences, there may be no debate to 'open'.
New contributor
I totally agree with you, if you are a foreigner and you work with them, even if you are not religious it will not create any problem, it will be okay.. Here for example the tourists can eat during Ramadan, and the restorants are open for them .. but not to the citizen of the country
– Motaka
10 hours ago
add a comment |
up vote
10
down vote
up vote
10
down vote
I also spent a few years in a MENA country in an academic environment. As you say, eating food/drinking water in public during Ramadan was illegal, as were certain standards of dress, however my experience over the years was that this did not in any way mean that the individuals I lived and worked with (including those who were practicing Muslims) were by default unaccepting of my non-religiousness. I am curious why you say
Surely, if they know I'm "non religious" it will annoy them.
and
So even if my supervisor is kind enough as well as his other doctoral student, but they will be disappointed if he know my situation.
Perhaps you have more reason for believing these than you have included in your question, however, in my personal experience, none of my Muslim friends/co-workers ever expected me to conform to their religion. I certainly never pretended to be Muslim, and like other answers, suggest that you do not do this as this is likely to make the situation more awkward ('I converted to fit in' is probably not the best answer to give to an observant member of any religion).
My advice is that perhaps this does not need to a bigger issue than any other lifestyle difference that you might have with your co-workers, and not to read too deeply into it (as in assuming they have some kind of expectation of you), unless they give you reason for it. Government polices do not necessarily reflect individual expectations. By all means, if you feel unhealthy pressure or feel unsafe, don't stay. Otherwise, similar situations where there is a difference in lifestyle/culture between members of the group occur all the time.
Perhaps another group you join might go out regularly for coffee/alcohol when you are unable to join for dietary/religious reasons, or in another group everyone else has kids, so leaves early, or do play-dates on the weekend. But in such situations, the activity you have to miss out on is surely not the only way to build rapport/respect within your group and strengthen your relationship with your supervisor. So if there is no actual pressure for you to have the same religious beliefs, try to decide if you're bothered by their religious belief. If not, then focus your energy on finding some other topic/hobby that you have in common. If both you and they are respectful of differences, there may be no debate to 'open'.
New contributor
I also spent a few years in a MENA country in an academic environment. As you say, eating food/drinking water in public during Ramadan was illegal, as were certain standards of dress, however my experience over the years was that this did not in any way mean that the individuals I lived and worked with (including those who were practicing Muslims) were by default unaccepting of my non-religiousness. I am curious why you say
Surely, if they know I'm "non religious" it will annoy them.
and
So even if my supervisor is kind enough as well as his other doctoral student, but they will be disappointed if he know my situation.
Perhaps you have more reason for believing these than you have included in your question, however, in my personal experience, none of my Muslim friends/co-workers ever expected me to conform to their religion. I certainly never pretended to be Muslim, and like other answers, suggest that you do not do this as this is likely to make the situation more awkward ('I converted to fit in' is probably not the best answer to give to an observant member of any religion).
My advice is that perhaps this does not need to a bigger issue than any other lifestyle difference that you might have with your co-workers, and not to read too deeply into it (as in assuming they have some kind of expectation of you), unless they give you reason for it. Government polices do not necessarily reflect individual expectations. By all means, if you feel unhealthy pressure or feel unsafe, don't stay. Otherwise, similar situations where there is a difference in lifestyle/culture between members of the group occur all the time.
Perhaps another group you join might go out regularly for coffee/alcohol when you are unable to join for dietary/religious reasons, or in another group everyone else has kids, so leaves early, or do play-dates on the weekend. But in such situations, the activity you have to miss out on is surely not the only way to build rapport/respect within your group and strengthen your relationship with your supervisor. So if there is no actual pressure for you to have the same religious beliefs, try to decide if you're bothered by their religious belief. If not, then focus your energy on finding some other topic/hobby that you have in common. If both you and they are respectful of differences, there may be no debate to 'open'.
New contributor
edited 18 hours ago
New contributor
answered 21 hours ago
The Hagen
1014
1014
New contributor
New contributor
I totally agree with you, if you are a foreigner and you work with them, even if you are not religious it will not create any problem, it will be okay.. Here for example the tourists can eat during Ramadan, and the restorants are open for them .. but not to the citizen of the country
– Motaka
10 hours ago
add a comment |
I totally agree with you, if you are a foreigner and you work with them, even if you are not religious it will not create any problem, it will be okay.. Here for example the tourists can eat during Ramadan, and the restorants are open for them .. but not to the citizen of the country
– Motaka
10 hours ago
I totally agree with you, if you are a foreigner and you work with them, even if you are not religious it will not create any problem, it will be okay.. Here for example the tourists can eat during Ramadan, and the restorants are open for them .. but not to the citizen of the country
– Motaka
10 hours ago
I totally agree with you, if you are a foreigner and you work with them, even if you are not religious it will not create any problem, it will be okay.. Here for example the tourists can eat during Ramadan, and the restorants are open for them .. but not to the citizen of the country
– Motaka
10 hours ago
add a comment |
up vote
8
down vote
~Note: I am an American, and while I studied at a largely international college with large populations of all major religions, my answer may not accurately reflect cultural expectations in other countries.~
First of all, I do not think that you should pretend to be religious if you are not. It sounds like it would be quite uncomfortable for you, and could lead to many negative feelings if they found out that you had been lying.
Instead, it sounds like you should have a conversation with your professor. It is not reasonable to ask him or other students to refrain from praying. However, it seems like your biggest concern is that it feels awkward and you do not want them to judge you for being non-religious. The easiest way to deal with this is to tell your professor about your concerns and ask honestly if he is bothered by it.
Tell him that you have noticed that he and the other students go pray together and that you have felt uncomfortable by being the only one who does not because you worry that he could be annoyed or feel disrespected by your lack of participation. He will likely say that it does not bother him that you are not religious, although he may be curious as to why you are not if that is the norm.
At the end of the day, if he is uncomfortable having a non-religious student, he may not be a good fit for you. Knowing that will allow you to decide what to do next. It may be possible to change advisors or it may not, but you won't lose anything by having a polite and honest conversation.
New contributor
Thank you for your answer, as you said, the main thing is to be honest with yourself and with others, but I think It's not to me to open a this discussion, but if they want to discuss someday I will be honest.
– Motaka
yesterday
add a comment |
up vote
8
down vote
~Note: I am an American, and while I studied at a largely international college with large populations of all major religions, my answer may not accurately reflect cultural expectations in other countries.~
First of all, I do not think that you should pretend to be religious if you are not. It sounds like it would be quite uncomfortable for you, and could lead to many negative feelings if they found out that you had been lying.
Instead, it sounds like you should have a conversation with your professor. It is not reasonable to ask him or other students to refrain from praying. However, it seems like your biggest concern is that it feels awkward and you do not want them to judge you for being non-religious. The easiest way to deal with this is to tell your professor about your concerns and ask honestly if he is bothered by it.
Tell him that you have noticed that he and the other students go pray together and that you have felt uncomfortable by being the only one who does not because you worry that he could be annoyed or feel disrespected by your lack of participation. He will likely say that it does not bother him that you are not religious, although he may be curious as to why you are not if that is the norm.
At the end of the day, if he is uncomfortable having a non-religious student, he may not be a good fit for you. Knowing that will allow you to decide what to do next. It may be possible to change advisors or it may not, but you won't lose anything by having a polite and honest conversation.
New contributor
Thank you for your answer, as you said, the main thing is to be honest with yourself and with others, but I think It's not to me to open a this discussion, but if they want to discuss someday I will be honest.
– Motaka
yesterday
add a comment |
up vote
8
down vote
up vote
8
down vote
~Note: I am an American, and while I studied at a largely international college with large populations of all major religions, my answer may not accurately reflect cultural expectations in other countries.~
First of all, I do not think that you should pretend to be religious if you are not. It sounds like it would be quite uncomfortable for you, and could lead to many negative feelings if they found out that you had been lying.
Instead, it sounds like you should have a conversation with your professor. It is not reasonable to ask him or other students to refrain from praying. However, it seems like your biggest concern is that it feels awkward and you do not want them to judge you for being non-religious. The easiest way to deal with this is to tell your professor about your concerns and ask honestly if he is bothered by it.
Tell him that you have noticed that he and the other students go pray together and that you have felt uncomfortable by being the only one who does not because you worry that he could be annoyed or feel disrespected by your lack of participation. He will likely say that it does not bother him that you are not religious, although he may be curious as to why you are not if that is the norm.
At the end of the day, if he is uncomfortable having a non-religious student, he may not be a good fit for you. Knowing that will allow you to decide what to do next. It may be possible to change advisors or it may not, but you won't lose anything by having a polite and honest conversation.
New contributor
~Note: I am an American, and while I studied at a largely international college with large populations of all major religions, my answer may not accurately reflect cultural expectations in other countries.~
First of all, I do not think that you should pretend to be religious if you are not. It sounds like it would be quite uncomfortable for you, and could lead to many negative feelings if they found out that you had been lying.
Instead, it sounds like you should have a conversation with your professor. It is not reasonable to ask him or other students to refrain from praying. However, it seems like your biggest concern is that it feels awkward and you do not want them to judge you for being non-religious. The easiest way to deal with this is to tell your professor about your concerns and ask honestly if he is bothered by it.
Tell him that you have noticed that he and the other students go pray together and that you have felt uncomfortable by being the only one who does not because you worry that he could be annoyed or feel disrespected by your lack of participation. He will likely say that it does not bother him that you are not religious, although he may be curious as to why you are not if that is the norm.
At the end of the day, if he is uncomfortable having a non-religious student, he may not be a good fit for you. Knowing that will allow you to decide what to do next. It may be possible to change advisors or it may not, but you won't lose anything by having a polite and honest conversation.
New contributor
New contributor
answered yesterday
A Polyphony of Pirates
2935
2935
New contributor
New contributor
Thank you for your answer, as you said, the main thing is to be honest with yourself and with others, but I think It's not to me to open a this discussion, but if they want to discuss someday I will be honest.
– Motaka
yesterday
add a comment |
Thank you for your answer, as you said, the main thing is to be honest with yourself and with others, but I think It's not to me to open a this discussion, but if they want to discuss someday I will be honest.
– Motaka
yesterday
Thank you for your answer, as you said, the main thing is to be honest with yourself and with others, but I think It's not to me to open a this discussion, but if they want to discuss someday I will be honest.
– Motaka
yesterday
Thank you for your answer, as you said, the main thing is to be honest with yourself and with others, but I think It's not to me to open a this discussion, but if they want to discuss someday I will be honest.
– Motaka
yesterday
add a comment |
up vote
7
down vote
I am in the U.S., obviously a very different culture.
The way I think things OUGHT to work is this: If these people you work with have different religious beliefs than you and so periodically go off and pray or do whatever related to their religion, they should not pressure you to participate or penalize you in any way for not participating, and likewise you should not pressure them to not do this. They have the right to practice their religion, and you have the right to practice yours or not practice any.
I don't see why this should be any different than any other difference of interests. Suppose I worked with a group of people who, say, all loved to eat Italian food, and I don't like Italian food, and periodically they all go to lunch together at an Italian restaurant. It would be rude for them to pressure me to eat Italian food just because they like it. But it would be even more rude for me to say they shouldn't eat Italian food because I don't like it, or to complain that I am left out because I don't share their taste in food.
I think you should just accept that you don't share this particular interest with your co-workers and that this inevitably means that you will not share certain activities with them. I'd say, so what?
3
Although I agree with the sentiment expressed in this answer, I don't think it's very helpful to the OP to express the wish that everybody in the world should just get along with everybody regardless of personal beliefs, which is essentially what you're saying, but not the reality everywhere. In particular, the impact of religion on life is vastly greater than the impact of food preferences.
– gerrit
7 hours ago
add a comment |
up vote
7
down vote
I am in the U.S., obviously a very different culture.
The way I think things OUGHT to work is this: If these people you work with have different religious beliefs than you and so periodically go off and pray or do whatever related to their religion, they should not pressure you to participate or penalize you in any way for not participating, and likewise you should not pressure them to not do this. They have the right to practice their religion, and you have the right to practice yours or not practice any.
I don't see why this should be any different than any other difference of interests. Suppose I worked with a group of people who, say, all loved to eat Italian food, and I don't like Italian food, and periodically they all go to lunch together at an Italian restaurant. It would be rude for them to pressure me to eat Italian food just because they like it. But it would be even more rude for me to say they shouldn't eat Italian food because I don't like it, or to complain that I am left out because I don't share their taste in food.
I think you should just accept that you don't share this particular interest with your co-workers and that this inevitably means that you will not share certain activities with them. I'd say, so what?
3
Although I agree with the sentiment expressed in this answer, I don't think it's very helpful to the OP to express the wish that everybody in the world should just get along with everybody regardless of personal beliefs, which is essentially what you're saying, but not the reality everywhere. In particular, the impact of religion on life is vastly greater than the impact of food preferences.
– gerrit
7 hours ago
add a comment |
up vote
7
down vote
up vote
7
down vote
I am in the U.S., obviously a very different culture.
The way I think things OUGHT to work is this: If these people you work with have different religious beliefs than you and so periodically go off and pray or do whatever related to their religion, they should not pressure you to participate or penalize you in any way for not participating, and likewise you should not pressure them to not do this. They have the right to practice their religion, and you have the right to practice yours or not practice any.
I don't see why this should be any different than any other difference of interests. Suppose I worked with a group of people who, say, all loved to eat Italian food, and I don't like Italian food, and periodically they all go to lunch together at an Italian restaurant. It would be rude for them to pressure me to eat Italian food just because they like it. But it would be even more rude for me to say they shouldn't eat Italian food because I don't like it, or to complain that I am left out because I don't share their taste in food.
I think you should just accept that you don't share this particular interest with your co-workers and that this inevitably means that you will not share certain activities with them. I'd say, so what?
I am in the U.S., obviously a very different culture.
The way I think things OUGHT to work is this: If these people you work with have different religious beliefs than you and so periodically go off and pray or do whatever related to their religion, they should not pressure you to participate or penalize you in any way for not participating, and likewise you should not pressure them to not do this. They have the right to practice their religion, and you have the right to practice yours or not practice any.
I don't see why this should be any different than any other difference of interests. Suppose I worked with a group of people who, say, all loved to eat Italian food, and I don't like Italian food, and periodically they all go to lunch together at an Italian restaurant. It would be rude for them to pressure me to eat Italian food just because they like it. But it would be even more rude for me to say they shouldn't eat Italian food because I don't like it, or to complain that I am left out because I don't share their taste in food.
I think you should just accept that you don't share this particular interest with your co-workers and that this inevitably means that you will not share certain activities with them. I'd say, so what?
answered 23 hours ago
Jay
93535
93535
3
Although I agree with the sentiment expressed in this answer, I don't think it's very helpful to the OP to express the wish that everybody in the world should just get along with everybody regardless of personal beliefs, which is essentially what you're saying, but not the reality everywhere. In particular, the impact of religion on life is vastly greater than the impact of food preferences.
– gerrit
7 hours ago
add a comment |
3
Although I agree with the sentiment expressed in this answer, I don't think it's very helpful to the OP to express the wish that everybody in the world should just get along with everybody regardless of personal beliefs, which is essentially what you're saying, but not the reality everywhere. In particular, the impact of religion on life is vastly greater than the impact of food preferences.
– gerrit
7 hours ago
3
3
Although I agree with the sentiment expressed in this answer, I don't think it's very helpful to the OP to express the wish that everybody in the world should just get along with everybody regardless of personal beliefs, which is essentially what you're saying, but not the reality everywhere. In particular, the impact of religion on life is vastly greater than the impact of food preferences.
– gerrit
7 hours ago
Although I agree with the sentiment expressed in this answer, I don't think it's very helpful to the OP to express the wish that everybody in the world should just get along with everybody regardless of personal beliefs, which is essentially what you're saying, but not the reality everywhere. In particular, the impact of religion on life is vastly greater than the impact of food preferences.
– gerrit
7 hours ago
add a comment |
up vote
1
down vote
how do I react to a situation in which they all go to pray except me?
Do you think I have to open this debate with them, and close it once
and for all? Should I to pretend to be like them, pray with them?
It is up to you. If you feel encouraged to accompany them, then you can tell them to inform you, and tell them that you want to accompany them. Otherwise you should not go even if they invite you, you should tell them not to invite you as you do not prefer to.
Religion is something personal. Even in Muslim countries, no one can force you to pray.
In my opinion you should not open debate about this unless if you are interested about knowing more about what they are doing.
Your supervisor has certain rules and regulations to evaluate you. None of them can be praying. Even in the most religious countries. So you should not worry.
An no, you should not pretend to be like them and pray like them. If you do this, you are wasting your time. Your prayers should have meaning to you, and should make you feel better. If this is not the case with you, no one, including God, need it from you.
"Even in Muslim countries, no one can force you to pray." Are you sure?!
– Alone Programmer
5 mins ago
add a comment |
up vote
1
down vote
how do I react to a situation in which they all go to pray except me?
Do you think I have to open this debate with them, and close it once
and for all? Should I to pretend to be like them, pray with them?
It is up to you. If you feel encouraged to accompany them, then you can tell them to inform you, and tell them that you want to accompany them. Otherwise you should not go even if they invite you, you should tell them not to invite you as you do not prefer to.
Religion is something personal. Even in Muslim countries, no one can force you to pray.
In my opinion you should not open debate about this unless if you are interested about knowing more about what they are doing.
Your supervisor has certain rules and regulations to evaluate you. None of them can be praying. Even in the most religious countries. So you should not worry.
An no, you should not pretend to be like them and pray like them. If you do this, you are wasting your time. Your prayers should have meaning to you, and should make you feel better. If this is not the case with you, no one, including God, need it from you.
"Even in Muslim countries, no one can force you to pray." Are you sure?!
– Alone Programmer
5 mins ago
add a comment |
up vote
1
down vote
up vote
1
down vote
how do I react to a situation in which they all go to pray except me?
Do you think I have to open this debate with them, and close it once
and for all? Should I to pretend to be like them, pray with them?
It is up to you. If you feel encouraged to accompany them, then you can tell them to inform you, and tell them that you want to accompany them. Otherwise you should not go even if they invite you, you should tell them not to invite you as you do not prefer to.
Religion is something personal. Even in Muslim countries, no one can force you to pray.
In my opinion you should not open debate about this unless if you are interested about knowing more about what they are doing.
Your supervisor has certain rules and regulations to evaluate you. None of them can be praying. Even in the most religious countries. So you should not worry.
An no, you should not pretend to be like them and pray like them. If you do this, you are wasting your time. Your prayers should have meaning to you, and should make you feel better. If this is not the case with you, no one, including God, need it from you.
how do I react to a situation in which they all go to pray except me?
Do you think I have to open this debate with them, and close it once
and for all? Should I to pretend to be like them, pray with them?
It is up to you. If you feel encouraged to accompany them, then you can tell them to inform you, and tell them that you want to accompany them. Otherwise you should not go even if they invite you, you should tell them not to invite you as you do not prefer to.
Religion is something personal. Even in Muslim countries, no one can force you to pray.
In my opinion you should not open debate about this unless if you are interested about knowing more about what they are doing.
Your supervisor has certain rules and regulations to evaluate you. None of them can be praying. Even in the most religious countries. So you should not worry.
An no, you should not pretend to be like them and pray like them. If you do this, you are wasting your time. Your prayers should have meaning to you, and should make you feel better. If this is not the case with you, no one, including God, need it from you.
answered 23 hours ago
user9371654
2372
2372
"Even in Muslim countries, no one can force you to pray." Are you sure?!
– Alone Programmer
5 mins ago
add a comment |
"Even in Muslim countries, no one can force you to pray." Are you sure?!
– Alone Programmer
5 mins ago
"Even in Muslim countries, no one can force you to pray." Are you sure?!
– Alone Programmer
5 mins ago
"Even in Muslim countries, no one can force you to pray." Are you sure?!
– Alone Programmer
5 mins ago
add a comment |
up vote
0
down vote
It depends on which country you are talking about in the middle east. I'm from Iran and I would say not participating in religious practices is really common among young people and if somebody attends those religious practices will be mocked heavily. For the rest of my answer, I assume you are living somewhere maybe in the Arabic countries of the middle east. Also, my answer is not really depends on your relationship with the ones that have strict religious beliefs (it means you can replace your supervisor or his students with anybody else like your friends, family, etc.). Also, I assume you are a Muslim by born (it means you are Muslim cause your mother and father are Muslims) and then you changed your mind based on your personal thoughts.
The main key point is: is your supervisor or his students ever told you why you don't participate in their religious practices?
It is a really serious problem if you are Muslim by born and when you grew up you changed your mind to not to be a religious person. In fact, in Islam beliefs, it's not like you can change your mind after sometime and they welcome you and wish you good luck with your personal thoughts and ideas! It could cost you your life (seriously!). But as far as I know, their rule is that if somebody don't believe in Islam or for whatever reason changed his/her mind to not follow Islam's rules, you would be safe as long as you don't express your ideas in any way to the public and your society. This means if your supervisor or his students asked you about why you don't participate in their religious practices? You need to have a really unimportant or common reason for it and not saying I don't believe in your beliefs! I mean you should say I'm a practitioner certainly but for some reason like being sick at the moment, I could not attend those practices with you. Otherwise, if you want to express your true beliefs that you don't believe in Islam, it will lead to a lengthy discussion with them about why you don't do it and they will try to convince you and if you don't accept their ideas it makes the problem bigger and bigger. So, for every time just bring a fake reason and move on, or better idea is: to not to be there when they are practicing their religion. Also, Buffy suggested you to change your location. Honestly, it is not really easy to relocate to somewhere else when you are from middle east and it may be your long-term goal rather than a short-time answer to your question and your situation that you are trying to deal with it.
add a comment |
up vote
0
down vote
It depends on which country you are talking about in the middle east. I'm from Iran and I would say not participating in religious practices is really common among young people and if somebody attends those religious practices will be mocked heavily. For the rest of my answer, I assume you are living somewhere maybe in the Arabic countries of the middle east. Also, my answer is not really depends on your relationship with the ones that have strict religious beliefs (it means you can replace your supervisor or his students with anybody else like your friends, family, etc.). Also, I assume you are a Muslim by born (it means you are Muslim cause your mother and father are Muslims) and then you changed your mind based on your personal thoughts.
The main key point is: is your supervisor or his students ever told you why you don't participate in their religious practices?
It is a really serious problem if you are Muslim by born and when you grew up you changed your mind to not to be a religious person. In fact, in Islam beliefs, it's not like you can change your mind after sometime and they welcome you and wish you good luck with your personal thoughts and ideas! It could cost you your life (seriously!). But as far as I know, their rule is that if somebody don't believe in Islam or for whatever reason changed his/her mind to not follow Islam's rules, you would be safe as long as you don't express your ideas in any way to the public and your society. This means if your supervisor or his students asked you about why you don't participate in their religious practices? You need to have a really unimportant or common reason for it and not saying I don't believe in your beliefs! I mean you should say I'm a practitioner certainly but for some reason like being sick at the moment, I could not attend those practices with you. Otherwise, if you want to express your true beliefs that you don't believe in Islam, it will lead to a lengthy discussion with them about why you don't do it and they will try to convince you and if you don't accept their ideas it makes the problem bigger and bigger. So, for every time just bring a fake reason and move on, or better idea is: to not to be there when they are practicing their religion. Also, Buffy suggested you to change your location. Honestly, it is not really easy to relocate to somewhere else when you are from middle east and it may be your long-term goal rather than a short-time answer to your question and your situation that you are trying to deal with it.
add a comment |
up vote
0
down vote
up vote
0
down vote
It depends on which country you are talking about in the middle east. I'm from Iran and I would say not participating in religious practices is really common among young people and if somebody attends those religious practices will be mocked heavily. For the rest of my answer, I assume you are living somewhere maybe in the Arabic countries of the middle east. Also, my answer is not really depends on your relationship with the ones that have strict religious beliefs (it means you can replace your supervisor or his students with anybody else like your friends, family, etc.). Also, I assume you are a Muslim by born (it means you are Muslim cause your mother and father are Muslims) and then you changed your mind based on your personal thoughts.
The main key point is: is your supervisor or his students ever told you why you don't participate in their religious practices?
It is a really serious problem if you are Muslim by born and when you grew up you changed your mind to not to be a religious person. In fact, in Islam beliefs, it's not like you can change your mind after sometime and they welcome you and wish you good luck with your personal thoughts and ideas! It could cost you your life (seriously!). But as far as I know, their rule is that if somebody don't believe in Islam or for whatever reason changed his/her mind to not follow Islam's rules, you would be safe as long as you don't express your ideas in any way to the public and your society. This means if your supervisor or his students asked you about why you don't participate in their religious practices? You need to have a really unimportant or common reason for it and not saying I don't believe in your beliefs! I mean you should say I'm a practitioner certainly but for some reason like being sick at the moment, I could not attend those practices with you. Otherwise, if you want to express your true beliefs that you don't believe in Islam, it will lead to a lengthy discussion with them about why you don't do it and they will try to convince you and if you don't accept their ideas it makes the problem bigger and bigger. So, for every time just bring a fake reason and move on, or better idea is: to not to be there when they are practicing their religion. Also, Buffy suggested you to change your location. Honestly, it is not really easy to relocate to somewhere else when you are from middle east and it may be your long-term goal rather than a short-time answer to your question and your situation that you are trying to deal with it.
It depends on which country you are talking about in the middle east. I'm from Iran and I would say not participating in religious practices is really common among young people and if somebody attends those religious practices will be mocked heavily. For the rest of my answer, I assume you are living somewhere maybe in the Arabic countries of the middle east. Also, my answer is not really depends on your relationship with the ones that have strict religious beliefs (it means you can replace your supervisor or his students with anybody else like your friends, family, etc.). Also, I assume you are a Muslim by born (it means you are Muslim cause your mother and father are Muslims) and then you changed your mind based on your personal thoughts.
The main key point is: is your supervisor or his students ever told you why you don't participate in their religious practices?
It is a really serious problem if you are Muslim by born and when you grew up you changed your mind to not to be a religious person. In fact, in Islam beliefs, it's not like you can change your mind after sometime and they welcome you and wish you good luck with your personal thoughts and ideas! It could cost you your life (seriously!). But as far as I know, their rule is that if somebody don't believe in Islam or for whatever reason changed his/her mind to not follow Islam's rules, you would be safe as long as you don't express your ideas in any way to the public and your society. This means if your supervisor or his students asked you about why you don't participate in their religious practices? You need to have a really unimportant or common reason for it and not saying I don't believe in your beliefs! I mean you should say I'm a practitioner certainly but for some reason like being sick at the moment, I could not attend those practices with you. Otherwise, if you want to express your true beliefs that you don't believe in Islam, it will lead to a lengthy discussion with them about why you don't do it and they will try to convince you and if you don't accept their ideas it makes the problem bigger and bigger. So, for every time just bring a fake reason and move on, or better idea is: to not to be there when they are practicing their religion. Also, Buffy suggested you to change your location. Honestly, it is not really easy to relocate to somewhere else when you are from middle east and it may be your long-term goal rather than a short-time answer to your question and your situation that you are trying to deal with it.
answered 14 mins ago
Alone Programmer
6521320
6521320
add a comment |
add a comment |
Motaka is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
Motaka is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
Motaka is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
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52
Aren’t they leaving to go pray somewhere else to not make you feel uncomfortable?
– Jon Custer
yesterday
7
While I don't know your location, my default answer to this would be "no, you should not do anything that makes you uncomfortable and surely not pretend to be religious in front of your supervisor or anybody else". The nuances on how to deal with this might be easier to suggest if you give us some hint of your location. But, what I'm really interested in is your statement that "Surely if they knew I am not religious it will annoy them" - how do you know that? Have you seen them treat non-religious students unfavourably, is it your funded or unfunded assumption, or something else?
– penelope
yesterday
12
I feel this question requires a much more precise location. Muslim countries vary wildly regarding the tolerance of non religious people. While in some of these countries it would be fine to "come out", in many of these you could be risking your life or your scholarship. So obviously whether or not talking to your supervisor is appropriate depends completely in which case you are. MENA is huge, so it does not really say much about which possibility you are in.
– Bakuriu
23 hours ago
9
@penelope: No that is bad advice. One must consider the repercussions of publicly denying religion in countries whose population will react badly to it. One might even have to pretend to be religious to preserve one's own life, especially if one intends to eventually leave such a country. It is really a waste to sacrifice unnecessarily.
– user21820
9 hours ago
5
If you don't go pray with them, how did they not figure out yet that you are not religious? Do they think you pray alone at a different time?
– idkfa
9 hours ago