On the phrase “You wouldn't think it to [look at him]”
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There is an oft-used phrase structure that appears odd to me, but I can't tell if it qualifies as a set phrase, idiom, a mere grammatical fluke, or an archaic grammatical structure.
The superstar DJ turns 50 later this year but you wouldn't think it to look at him
The Independent, 2017
She’s a wild one, Ellie Harrison. You wouldn’t think it to see her cradling lambs on Countryfile, but get the presenter talking about her love of raves, her reckless youth and her fierce views about animal welfare and the inner warrior comes out.
The Daily Mail, 2017
Based on googling, I found the phrase in Steinbeck's Of Mice and Men, which made me wonder if the structure caught on because of his writing, or if it merely happens to be a well-known use.
"You wouldn't think it to look at him now, but he was the best damn sheep dog I ever seen."
- Of Mice and Men
Is there a term for this sort of grammatical oddity, apart from perhaps considering it a set phrase?
phrases terminology descriptive-grammar phrase-origin
asked Jul 25 '17 at 23:32
RaceYouAnytime
18.8k24298
bumped to the homepage by Community♦ 3 hours ago
This question has answers that may be good or bad; the system has marked it active so that they can be reviewed.
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There is an oft-used phrase structure that appears odd to me, but I can't tell if it qualifies as a set phrase, idiom, a mere grammatical fluke, or an archaic grammatical structure.
The superstar DJ turns 50 later this year but you wouldn't think it to look at him
The Independent, 2017
She’s a wild one, Ellie Harrison. You wouldn’t think it to see her cradling lambs on Countryfile, but get the presenter talking about her love of raves, her reckless youth and her fierce views about animal welfare and the inner warrior comes out.
The Daily Mail, 2017
Based on googling, I found the phrase in Steinbeck's Of Mice and Men, which made me wonder if the structure caught on because of his writing, or if it merely happens to be a well-known use.
"You wouldn't think it to look at him now, but he was the best damn sheep dog I ever seen."
- Of Mice and Men
Is there a term for this sort of grammatical oddity, apart from perhaps considering it a set phrase?
phrases terminology descriptive-grammar phrase-origin
asked Jul 25 '17 at 23:32
RaceYouAnytime
18.8k24298
bumped to the homepage by Community♦ 3 hours ago
This question has answers that may be good or bad; the system has marked it active so that they can be reviewed.
To be a set phrase, it would need to be fairly static. If it's just the human condition (to look and judge), then I could vary it, which I can. "They might not assume this by his current appearance, but he has always been a good dancer."
– Yosef Baskin
Jul 25 '17 at 23:47
1
I did a Google search; searched the OED; and I searched all the resources listed in the Idioms, expressions and slang section of What good reference works on English are available?. Nada. Which means this is a great question! ;-)
– Mark D Worthen PsyD
Jul 26 '17 at 5:17
Without question, Steinbeck's writing attempted to sound like vernacular. Ipso facto it likely pre-existed Steinbeck's writing. I have no proof, but I would have to think it fits in the category of "things my grandpa used to say". E.g. "can't cut the mustard".
– Corvus B
Jul 27 '17 at 0:47
It's a common idiom, but one that means pretty much what it says. It's only slightly informal in grammar -- far from what I'd consider a "fluke". What is it that's bugging you?
– Hot Licks
Jul 27 '17 at 0:55
1
@JEL The phrase doesn't have to begin with you, though in my observations it often does in the colloquial modern uses. "One wouldn't think it to look at him," would be in the same category from my perspective. Likewise, I usually see the contraction, but I would consider "would not" to be in the same category too.
– RaceYouAnytime
Jul 27 '17 at 15:08
|
show 7 more comments
up vote
4
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up vote
4
down vote
favorite
There is an oft-used phrase structure that appears odd to me, but I can't tell if it qualifies as a set phrase, idiom, a mere grammatical fluke, or an archaic grammatical structure.
The superstar DJ turns 50 later this year but you wouldn't think it to look at him
The Independent, 2017
She’s a wild one, Ellie Harrison. You wouldn’t think it to see her cradling lambs on Countryfile, but get the presenter talking about her love of raves, her reckless youth and her fierce views about animal welfare and the inner warrior comes out.
The Daily Mail, 2017
Based on googling, I found the phrase in Steinbeck's Of Mice and Men, which made me wonder if the structure caught on because of his writing, or if it merely happens to be a well-known use.
"You wouldn't think it to look at him now, but he was the best damn sheep dog I ever seen."
- Of Mice and Men
Is there a term for this sort of grammatical oddity, apart from perhaps considering it a set phrase?
phrases terminology descriptive-grammar phrase-origin
asked Jul 25 '17 at 23:32
RaceYouAnytime
18.8k24298
There is an oft-used phrase structure that appears odd to me, but I can't tell if it qualifies as a set phrase, idiom, a mere grammatical fluke, or an archaic grammatical structure.
The superstar DJ turns 50 later this year but you wouldn't think it to look at him
The Independent, 2017
She’s a wild one, Ellie Harrison. You wouldn’t think it to see her cradling lambs on Countryfile, but get the presenter talking about her love of raves, her reckless youth and her fierce views about animal welfare and the inner warrior comes out.
The Daily Mail, 2017
Based on googling, I found the phrase in Steinbeck's Of Mice and Men, which made me wonder if the structure caught on because of his writing, or if it merely happens to be a well-known use.
"You wouldn't think it to look at him now, but he was the best damn sheep dog I ever seen."
- Of Mice and Men
Is there a term for this sort of grammatical oddity, apart from perhaps considering it a set phrase?
phrases terminology descriptive-grammar phrase-origin
phrases terminology descriptive-grammar phrase-origin
asked Jul 25 '17 at 23:32
RaceYouAnytime
18.8k24298
asked Jul 25 '17 at 23:32
RaceYouAnytime
18.8k24298
edited Jul 26 '17 at 0:28
asked Jul 25 '17 at 23:32
RaceYouAnytime
18.8k24298
asked Jul 25 '17 at 23:32
RaceYouAnytime
18.8k24298
asked Jul 25 '17 at 23:32
RaceYouAnytime
18.8k24298
18.8k24298
bumped to the homepage by Community♦ 3 hours ago
This question has answers that may be good or bad; the system has marked it active so that they can be reviewed.
bumped to the homepage by Community♦ 3 hours ago
This question has answers that may be good or bad; the system has marked it active so that they can be reviewed.
To be a set phrase, it would need to be fairly static. If it's just the human condition (to look and judge), then I could vary it, which I can. "They might not assume this by his current appearance, but he has always been a good dancer."
– Yosef Baskin
Jul 25 '17 at 23:47
1
I did a Google search; searched the OED; and I searched all the resources listed in the Idioms, expressions and slang section of What good reference works on English are available?. Nada. Which means this is a great question! ;-)
– Mark D Worthen PsyD
Jul 26 '17 at 5:17
Without question, Steinbeck's writing attempted to sound like vernacular. Ipso facto it likely pre-existed Steinbeck's writing. I have no proof, but I would have to think it fits in the category of "things my grandpa used to say". E.g. "can't cut the mustard".
– Corvus B
Jul 27 '17 at 0:47
It's a common idiom, but one that means pretty much what it says. It's only slightly informal in grammar -- far from what I'd consider a "fluke". What is it that's bugging you?
– Hot Licks
Jul 27 '17 at 0:55
1
@JEL The phrase doesn't have to begin with you, though in my observations it often does in the colloquial modern uses. "One wouldn't think it to look at him," would be in the same category from my perspective. Likewise, I usually see the contraction, but I would consider "would not" to be in the same category too.
– RaceYouAnytime
Jul 27 '17 at 15:08
|
show 7 more comments
To be a set phrase, it would need to be fairly static. If it's just the human condition (to look and judge), then I could vary it, which I can. "They might not assume this by his current appearance, but he has always been a good dancer."
– Yosef Baskin
Jul 25 '17 at 23:47
1
I did a Google search; searched the OED; and I searched all the resources listed in the Idioms, expressions and slang section of What good reference works on English are available?. Nada. Which means this is a great question! ;-)
– Mark D Worthen PsyD
Jul 26 '17 at 5:17
Without question, Steinbeck's writing attempted to sound like vernacular. Ipso facto it likely pre-existed Steinbeck's writing. I have no proof, but I would have to think it fits in the category of "things my grandpa used to say". E.g. "can't cut the mustard".
– Corvus B
Jul 27 '17 at 0:47
It's a common idiom, but one that means pretty much what it says. It's only slightly informal in grammar -- far from what I'd consider a "fluke". What is it that's bugging you?
– Hot Licks
Jul 27 '17 at 0:55
1
@JEL The phrase doesn't have to begin with you, though in my observations it often does in the colloquial modern uses. "One wouldn't think it to look at him," would be in the same category from my perspective. Likewise, I usually see the contraction, but I would consider "would not" to be in the same category too.
– RaceYouAnytime
Jul 27 '17 at 15:08
To be a set phrase, it would need to be fairly static. If it's just the human condition (to look and judge), then I could vary it, which I can. "They might not assume this by his current appearance, but he has always been a good dancer."
– Yosef Baskin
Jul 25 '17 at 23:47
To be a set phrase, it would need to be fairly static. If it's just the human condition (to look and judge), then I could vary it, which I can. "They might not assume this by his current appearance, but he has always been a good dancer."
– Yosef Baskin
Jul 25 '17 at 23:47
1
1
I did a Google search; searched the OED; and I searched all the resources listed in the Idioms, expressions and slang section of What good reference works on English are available?. Nada. Which means this is a great question! ;-)
– Mark D Worthen PsyD
Jul 26 '17 at 5:17
I did a Google search; searched the OED; and I searched all the resources listed in the Idioms, expressions and slang section of What good reference works on English are available?. Nada. Which means this is a great question! ;-)
– Mark D Worthen PsyD
Jul 26 '17 at 5:17
Without question, Steinbeck's writing attempted to sound like vernacular. Ipso facto it likely pre-existed Steinbeck's writing. I have no proof, but I would have to think it fits in the category of "things my grandpa used to say". E.g. "can't cut the mustard".
– Corvus B
Jul 27 '17 at 0:47
Without question, Steinbeck's writing attempted to sound like vernacular. Ipso facto it likely pre-existed Steinbeck's writing. I have no proof, but I would have to think it fits in the category of "things my grandpa used to say". E.g. "can't cut the mustard".
– Corvus B
Jul 27 '17 at 0:47
It's a common idiom, but one that means pretty much what it says. It's only slightly informal in grammar -- far from what I'd consider a "fluke". What is it that's bugging you?
– Hot Licks
Jul 27 '17 at 0:55
It's a common idiom, but one that means pretty much what it says. It's only slightly informal in grammar -- far from what I'd consider a "fluke". What is it that's bugging you?
– Hot Licks
Jul 27 '17 at 0:55
1
1
@JEL The phrase doesn't have to begin with you, though in my observations it often does in the colloquial modern uses. "One wouldn't think it to look at him," would be in the same category from my perspective. Likewise, I usually see the contraction, but I would consider "would not" to be in the same category too.
– RaceYouAnytime
Jul 27 '17 at 15:08
@JEL The phrase doesn't have to begin with you, though in my observations it often does in the colloquial modern uses. "One wouldn't think it to look at him," would be in the same category from my perspective. Likewise, I usually see the contraction, but I would consider "would not" to be in the same category too.
– RaceYouAnytime
Jul 27 '17 at 15:08
|
show 7 more comments
2 Answers
2
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0
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Kenning incorporating a litote, I think.
"You wouldn't think" being a kenning for 'counter-intuitive, and some negation stirred in.
The Wikipedia article on litote points to a famous essay of George Orwell's https://biblio.wiki/wiki/Politics_and_the_English_Language bemoaning the terrible state of political discourse. Orwell thought it couldn't get any worse, but clearly, we now have evidence he was wrong. :(
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenning: "...a type of circumlocution, in the form of a compound that employs figurative language in place of a more concrete single-word noun..."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Litotes: "...a figure of speech that uses understatement to emphasize a point by stating a negative to further affirm a positive, often incorporating double negatives for effect."
answered May 12 at 14:49
Taryn
46937
add a comment |
up vote
0
down vote
No fluke at all. A standard grammatical use of a pronoun to stand in for a phrase that precedes or follows it. As in, "You wouldn't think it to look at her, but she's always judging the behavior of those around her." "It" is in apposition to the phrase that follows "but." Nothing complicated about this usage, just a simple grammatical equivalency!
answered Sep 12 at 15:05
Louise Hawes
11
add a comment |
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
0
down vote
Kenning incorporating a litote, I think.
"You wouldn't think" being a kenning for 'counter-intuitive, and some negation stirred in.
The Wikipedia article on litote points to a famous essay of George Orwell's https://biblio.wiki/wiki/Politics_and_the_English_Language bemoaning the terrible state of political discourse. Orwell thought it couldn't get any worse, but clearly, we now have evidence he was wrong. :(
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenning: "...a type of circumlocution, in the form of a compound that employs figurative language in place of a more concrete single-word noun..."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Litotes: "...a figure of speech that uses understatement to emphasize a point by stating a negative to further affirm a positive, often incorporating double negatives for effect."
answered May 12 at 14:49
Taryn
46937
add a comment |
up vote
0
down vote
Kenning incorporating a litote, I think.
"You wouldn't think" being a kenning for 'counter-intuitive, and some negation stirred in.
The Wikipedia article on litote points to a famous essay of George Orwell's https://biblio.wiki/wiki/Politics_and_the_English_Language bemoaning the terrible state of political discourse. Orwell thought it couldn't get any worse, but clearly, we now have evidence he was wrong. :(
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenning: "...a type of circumlocution, in the form of a compound that employs figurative language in place of a more concrete single-word noun..."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Litotes: "...a figure of speech that uses understatement to emphasize a point by stating a negative to further affirm a positive, often incorporating double negatives for effect."
answered May 12 at 14:49
Taryn
46937
add a comment |
up vote
0
down vote
up vote
0
down vote
Kenning incorporating a litote, I think.
"You wouldn't think" being a kenning for 'counter-intuitive, and some negation stirred in.
The Wikipedia article on litote points to a famous essay of George Orwell's https://biblio.wiki/wiki/Politics_and_the_English_Language bemoaning the terrible state of political discourse. Orwell thought it couldn't get any worse, but clearly, we now have evidence he was wrong. :(
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenning: "...a type of circumlocution, in the form of a compound that employs figurative language in place of a more concrete single-word noun..."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Litotes: "...a figure of speech that uses understatement to emphasize a point by stating a negative to further affirm a positive, often incorporating double negatives for effect."
answered May 12 at 14:49
Taryn
46937
Kenning incorporating a litote, I think.
"You wouldn't think" being a kenning for 'counter-intuitive, and some negation stirred in.
The Wikipedia article on litote points to a famous essay of George Orwell's https://biblio.wiki/wiki/Politics_and_the_English_Language bemoaning the terrible state of political discourse. Orwell thought it couldn't get any worse, but clearly, we now have evidence he was wrong. :(
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenning: "...a type of circumlocution, in the form of a compound that employs figurative language in place of a more concrete single-word noun..."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Litotes: "...a figure of speech that uses understatement to emphasize a point by stating a negative to further affirm a positive, often incorporating double negatives for effect."
answered May 12 at 14:49
Taryn
46937
answered May 12 at 14:49
Taryn
46937
answered May 12 at 14:49
Taryn
46937
answered May 12 at 14:49
Taryn
46937
46937
add a comment |
add a comment |
up vote
0
down vote
No fluke at all. A standard grammatical use of a pronoun to stand in for a phrase that precedes or follows it. As in, "You wouldn't think it to look at her, but she's always judging the behavior of those around her." "It" is in apposition to the phrase that follows "but." Nothing complicated about this usage, just a simple grammatical equivalency!
answered Sep 12 at 15:05
Louise Hawes
11
add a comment |
up vote
0
down vote
No fluke at all. A standard grammatical use of a pronoun to stand in for a phrase that precedes or follows it. As in, "You wouldn't think it to look at her, but she's always judging the behavior of those around her." "It" is in apposition to the phrase that follows "but." Nothing complicated about this usage, just a simple grammatical equivalency!
answered Sep 12 at 15:05
Louise Hawes
11
add a comment |
up vote
0
down vote
up vote
0
down vote
No fluke at all. A standard grammatical use of a pronoun to stand in for a phrase that precedes or follows it. As in, "You wouldn't think it to look at her, but she's always judging the behavior of those around her." "It" is in apposition to the phrase that follows "but." Nothing complicated about this usage, just a simple grammatical equivalency!
answered Sep 12 at 15:05
Louise Hawes
11
No fluke at all. A standard grammatical use of a pronoun to stand in for a phrase that precedes or follows it. As in, "You wouldn't think it to look at her, but she's always judging the behavior of those around her." "It" is in apposition to the phrase that follows "but." Nothing complicated about this usage, just a simple grammatical equivalency!
answered Sep 12 at 15:05
Louise Hawes
11
answered Sep 12 at 15:05
Louise Hawes
11
answered Sep 12 at 15:05
Louise Hawes
11
answered Sep 12 at 15:05
Louise Hawes
11
11
add a comment |
add a comment |
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To be a set phrase, it would need to be fairly static. If it's just the human condition (to look and judge), then I could vary it, which I can. "They might not assume this by his current appearance, but he has always been a good dancer."
– Yosef Baskin
Jul 25 '17 at 23:47
1
I did a Google search; searched the OED; and I searched all the resources listed in the Idioms, expressions and slang section of What good reference works on English are available?. Nada. Which means this is a great question! ;-)
– Mark D Worthen PsyD
Jul 26 '17 at 5:17
Without question, Steinbeck's writing attempted to sound like vernacular. Ipso facto it likely pre-existed Steinbeck's writing. I have no proof, but I would have to think it fits in the category of "things my grandpa used to say". E.g. "can't cut the mustard".
– Corvus B
Jul 27 '17 at 0:47
It's a common idiom, but one that means pretty much what it says. It's only slightly informal in grammar -- far from what I'd consider a "fluke". What is it that's bugging you?
– Hot Licks
Jul 27 '17 at 0:55
1
@JEL The phrase doesn't have to begin with you, though in my observations it often does in the colloquial modern uses. "One wouldn't think it to look at him," would be in the same category from my perspective. Likewise, I usually see the contraction, but I would consider "would not" to be in the same category too.
– RaceYouAnytime
Jul 27 '17 at 15:08