Be better learned by vs. be learned better by?
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Many disciplines are better learned by entering into the doing than by mere abstract study.
q) If I change the above to "learned better by entering...", does it make any difference? When do you put better before "learned" and after "learned"?
adverbs
asked Jan 23 at 14:53
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Many disciplines are better learned by entering into the doing than by mere abstract study.
q) If I change the above to "learned better by entering...", does it make any difference? When do you put better before "learned" and after "learned"?
adverbs
asked Jan 23 at 14:53
QnQ
335
bumped to the homepage by Community♦ 12 hours ago
This question has answers that may be good or bad; the system has marked it active so that they can be reviewed.
2
These Google Ngrams would seem to show that 'are learned better by' is less idiomatic than 'are better learned by'.
– Edwin Ashworth
Jan 23 at 15:17
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up vote
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favorite
Many disciplines are better learned by entering into the doing than by mere abstract study.
q) If I change the above to "learned better by entering...", does it make any difference? When do you put better before "learned" and after "learned"?
adverbs
asked Jan 23 at 14:53
QnQ
335
Many disciplines are better learned by entering into the doing than by mere abstract study.
q) If I change the above to "learned better by entering...", does it make any difference? When do you put better before "learned" and after "learned"?
adverbs
adverbs
asked Jan 23 at 14:53
QnQ
335
asked Jan 23 at 14:53
QnQ
335
asked Jan 23 at 14:53
QnQ
335
asked Jan 23 at 14:53
QnQ
335
asked Jan 23 at 14:53
QnQ
335
335
bumped to the homepage by Community♦ 12 hours ago
This question has answers that may be good or bad; the system has marked it active so that they can be reviewed.
bumped to the homepage by Community♦ 12 hours ago
This question has answers that may be good or bad; the system has marked it active so that they can be reviewed.
2
These Google Ngrams would seem to show that 'are learned better by' is less idiomatic than 'are better learned by'.
– Edwin Ashworth
Jan 23 at 15:17
add a comment |
2
These Google Ngrams would seem to show that 'are learned better by' is less idiomatic than 'are better learned by'.
– Edwin Ashworth
Jan 23 at 15:17
2
2
These Google Ngrams would seem to show that 'are learned better by' is less idiomatic than 'are better learned by'.
– Edwin Ashworth
Jan 23 at 15:17
These Google Ngrams would seem to show that 'are learned better by' is less idiomatic than 'are better learned by'.
– Edwin Ashworth
Jan 23 at 15:17
add a comment |
2 Answers
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As already noted, 'better learned' does exist as something someone might say so you need 'learned better'.
You asked whether the placement of 'better' make any difference? It does for other past participles used as adjectives. For example, 'better educated' means the results of someone's education were better, but 'educated better' means the standard of the education given to them was better.
There are times you need to consider which of two words is the main idea and which is modifying the other word.
answered Jan 23 at 19:56
Ross Murray
1,263111
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They're mostly equivalent in meaning, except that the "better learned […]" version is theoretically ambiguous between two different senses of "better":
- It can mean roughly "more thoroughly": to learn something well is to learn it thoroughly, to know something well is to know it thoroughly, etc.
- In this case, the sentence means that there are many disciplines that one can learn better by practicing them than by studying them in the abstract.
- It can mean roughly "more good" (but as an adverb): "better him than me" means that I'd rather something (from the context) happened to him than to me.
- In this case, the sentence means that there are many disciplines that it's better to learn by practicing them than by studying them in the abstract.
This can be a subtle distinction, since we generally consider it better to learn something better, so someone who agrees with the sentence under one interpretation will probably agree with it under the other as well. Nonetheless, we can tease apart the two senses by contrasting "Flavors are better learned by tasting them than by hearing them described, but I'm deathly allergic to peanuts, so I had to make do" with "I gather that you're deathly allergic to peanuts, so in your case I suppose the flavor is better learned by hearing it described than by actually tasting it!"
The "learned better […]" version, however, doesn't have this ambiguity, because in that position "better" can only modify the verb phrase headed by "learned"; it can't modify the entire predicate. As a result, it can only have the "more thoroughly" sense.
Additionally, as Edwin Ashworth points out above, the version with "better learned" is much more common.
answered Jan 24 at 4:59
ruakh
12k13446
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2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
0
down vote
As already noted, 'better learned' does exist as something someone might say so you need 'learned better'.
You asked whether the placement of 'better' make any difference? It does for other past participles used as adjectives. For example, 'better educated' means the results of someone's education were better, but 'educated better' means the standard of the education given to them was better.
There are times you need to consider which of two words is the main idea and which is modifying the other word.
answered Jan 23 at 19:56
Ross Murray
1,263111
add a comment |
up vote
0
down vote
As already noted, 'better learned' does exist as something someone might say so you need 'learned better'.
You asked whether the placement of 'better' make any difference? It does for other past participles used as adjectives. For example, 'better educated' means the results of someone's education were better, but 'educated better' means the standard of the education given to them was better.
There are times you need to consider which of two words is the main idea and which is modifying the other word.
answered Jan 23 at 19:56
Ross Murray
1,263111
add a comment |
up vote
0
down vote
up vote
0
down vote
As already noted, 'better learned' does exist as something someone might say so you need 'learned better'.
You asked whether the placement of 'better' make any difference? It does for other past participles used as adjectives. For example, 'better educated' means the results of someone's education were better, but 'educated better' means the standard of the education given to them was better.
There are times you need to consider which of two words is the main idea and which is modifying the other word.
answered Jan 23 at 19:56
Ross Murray
1,263111
As already noted, 'better learned' does exist as something someone might say so you need 'learned better'.
You asked whether the placement of 'better' make any difference? It does for other past participles used as adjectives. For example, 'better educated' means the results of someone's education were better, but 'educated better' means the standard of the education given to them was better.
There are times you need to consider which of two words is the main idea and which is modifying the other word.
answered Jan 23 at 19:56
Ross Murray
1,263111
answered Jan 23 at 19:56
Ross Murray
1,263111
answered Jan 23 at 19:56
Ross Murray
1,263111
answered Jan 23 at 19:56
Ross Murray
1,263111
1,263111
add a comment |
add a comment |
up vote
0
down vote
They're mostly equivalent in meaning, except that the "better learned […]" version is theoretically ambiguous between two different senses of "better":
- It can mean roughly "more thoroughly": to learn something well is to learn it thoroughly, to know something well is to know it thoroughly, etc.
- In this case, the sentence means that there are many disciplines that one can learn better by practicing them than by studying them in the abstract.
- It can mean roughly "more good" (but as an adverb): "better him than me" means that I'd rather something (from the context) happened to him than to me.
- In this case, the sentence means that there are many disciplines that it's better to learn by practicing them than by studying them in the abstract.
This can be a subtle distinction, since we generally consider it better to learn something better, so someone who agrees with the sentence under one interpretation will probably agree with it under the other as well. Nonetheless, we can tease apart the two senses by contrasting "Flavors are better learned by tasting them than by hearing them described, but I'm deathly allergic to peanuts, so I had to make do" with "I gather that you're deathly allergic to peanuts, so in your case I suppose the flavor is better learned by hearing it described than by actually tasting it!"
The "learned better […]" version, however, doesn't have this ambiguity, because in that position "better" can only modify the verb phrase headed by "learned"; it can't modify the entire predicate. As a result, it can only have the "more thoroughly" sense.
Additionally, as Edwin Ashworth points out above, the version with "better learned" is much more common.
answered Jan 24 at 4:59
ruakh
12k13446
add a comment |
up vote
0
down vote
They're mostly equivalent in meaning, except that the "better learned […]" version is theoretically ambiguous between two different senses of "better":
- It can mean roughly "more thoroughly": to learn something well is to learn it thoroughly, to know something well is to know it thoroughly, etc.
- In this case, the sentence means that there are many disciplines that one can learn better by practicing them than by studying them in the abstract.
- It can mean roughly "more good" (but as an adverb): "better him than me" means that I'd rather something (from the context) happened to him than to me.
- In this case, the sentence means that there are many disciplines that it's better to learn by practicing them than by studying them in the abstract.
This can be a subtle distinction, since we generally consider it better to learn something better, so someone who agrees with the sentence under one interpretation will probably agree with it under the other as well. Nonetheless, we can tease apart the two senses by contrasting "Flavors are better learned by tasting them than by hearing them described, but I'm deathly allergic to peanuts, so I had to make do" with "I gather that you're deathly allergic to peanuts, so in your case I suppose the flavor is better learned by hearing it described than by actually tasting it!"
The "learned better […]" version, however, doesn't have this ambiguity, because in that position "better" can only modify the verb phrase headed by "learned"; it can't modify the entire predicate. As a result, it can only have the "more thoroughly" sense.
Additionally, as Edwin Ashworth points out above, the version with "better learned" is much more common.
answered Jan 24 at 4:59
ruakh
12k13446
add a comment |
up vote
0
down vote
up vote
0
down vote
They're mostly equivalent in meaning, except that the "better learned […]" version is theoretically ambiguous between two different senses of "better":
- It can mean roughly "more thoroughly": to learn something well is to learn it thoroughly, to know something well is to know it thoroughly, etc.
- In this case, the sentence means that there are many disciplines that one can learn better by practicing them than by studying them in the abstract.
- It can mean roughly "more good" (but as an adverb): "better him than me" means that I'd rather something (from the context) happened to him than to me.
- In this case, the sentence means that there are many disciplines that it's better to learn by practicing them than by studying them in the abstract.
This can be a subtle distinction, since we generally consider it better to learn something better, so someone who agrees with the sentence under one interpretation will probably agree with it under the other as well. Nonetheless, we can tease apart the two senses by contrasting "Flavors are better learned by tasting them than by hearing them described, but I'm deathly allergic to peanuts, so I had to make do" with "I gather that you're deathly allergic to peanuts, so in your case I suppose the flavor is better learned by hearing it described than by actually tasting it!"
The "learned better […]" version, however, doesn't have this ambiguity, because in that position "better" can only modify the verb phrase headed by "learned"; it can't modify the entire predicate. As a result, it can only have the "more thoroughly" sense.
Additionally, as Edwin Ashworth points out above, the version with "better learned" is much more common.
answered Jan 24 at 4:59
ruakh
12k13446
They're mostly equivalent in meaning, except that the "better learned […]" version is theoretically ambiguous between two different senses of "better":
- It can mean roughly "more thoroughly": to learn something well is to learn it thoroughly, to know something well is to know it thoroughly, etc.
- In this case, the sentence means that there are many disciplines that one can learn better by practicing them than by studying them in the abstract.
- It can mean roughly "more good" (but as an adverb): "better him than me" means that I'd rather something (from the context) happened to him than to me.
- In this case, the sentence means that there are many disciplines that it's better to learn by practicing them than by studying them in the abstract.
This can be a subtle distinction, since we generally consider it better to learn something better, so someone who agrees with the sentence under one interpretation will probably agree with it under the other as well. Nonetheless, we can tease apart the two senses by contrasting "Flavors are better learned by tasting them than by hearing them described, but I'm deathly allergic to peanuts, so I had to make do" with "I gather that you're deathly allergic to peanuts, so in your case I suppose the flavor is better learned by hearing it described than by actually tasting it!"
The "learned better […]" version, however, doesn't have this ambiguity, because in that position "better" can only modify the verb phrase headed by "learned"; it can't modify the entire predicate. As a result, it can only have the "more thoroughly" sense.
Additionally, as Edwin Ashworth points out above, the version with "better learned" is much more common.
answered Jan 24 at 4:59
ruakh
12k13446
answered Jan 24 at 4:59
ruakh
12k13446
answered Jan 24 at 4:59
ruakh
12k13446
answered Jan 24 at 4:59
ruakh
12k13446
12k13446
add a comment |
add a comment |
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These Google Ngrams would seem to show that 'are learned better by' is less idiomatic than 'are better learned by'.
– Edwin Ashworth
Jan 23 at 15:17