Clarification of rulings on Carrionette











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It is my understanding that the individual card rulings on Gatherer are essentially clarifying comments. i.e. they are "just" an application of the comprehensive rules to that specific card.



With that in mind, the rulings for Carrionette state:




A creature with Protection from Creatures can’t be targeted by this card’s ability.




But, when Carrionette is in the graveyard, it is not a creature. My guess is that rule 112 covers this somehow, but I'm not seeing it.






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    up vote
    3
    down vote

    favorite












    It is my understanding that the individual card rulings on Gatherer are essentially clarifying comments. i.e. they are "just" an application of the comprehensive rules to that specific card.



    With that in mind, the rulings for Carrionette state:




    A creature with Protection from Creatures can’t be targeted by this card’s ability.




    But, when Carrionette is in the graveyard, it is not a creature. My guess is that rule 112 covers this somehow, but I'm not seeing it.






    magic-the-gathering







    share|improve this question


























      up vote
      3
      down vote

      favorite









      up vote
      3
      down vote

      favorite











      It is my understanding that the individual card rulings on Gatherer are essentially clarifying comments. i.e. they are "just" an application of the comprehensive rules to that specific card.



      With that in mind, the rulings for Carrionette state:




      A creature with Protection from Creatures can’t be targeted by this card’s ability.




      But, when Carrionette is in the graveyard, it is not a creature. My guess is that rule 112 covers this somehow, but I'm not seeing it.






      magic-the-gathering







      share|improve this question















      It is my understanding that the individual card rulings on Gatherer are essentially clarifying comments. i.e. they are "just" an application of the comprehensive rules to that specific card.



      With that in mind, the rulings for Carrionette state:




      A creature with Protection from Creatures can’t be targeted by this card’s ability.




      But, when Carrionette is in the graveyard, it is not a creature. My guess is that rule 112 covers this somehow, but I'm not seeing it.






      magic-the-gathering




      magic-the-gathering






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      share|improve this question













      share|improve this question




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      edited 3 hours ago









      Glorfindel

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      asked 3 hours ago









      John

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          1 Answer
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          'creature' is not only a permanent type, but also a card type. Rule 702.16a states:




          702.16a Protection is a static ability, written “Protection from [quality].”

          ...

          If the quality is a card type, subtype, or supertype, the ability applies to sources that are permanents with that card type, subtype, or supertype and to any sources not on the battlefield that are of that card type, subtype, or supertype. This is an exception to rule 109.2.



          109.2. If a spell or ability uses a description of an object that includes a card type or subtype, but doesn’t include the word “card,” “spell,” “source,” or “scheme,” it means a permanent of that card type or subtype on the battlefield.




          (emphasis mine)



          so even though while a graveyarded Carrionette is not a creature by rule 109.2, it's still a card with type 'creature' which is sufficient for the protection ability.






          share|improve this answer



















          • 1




            It is not clear to me why 109.2 does not apply here. "Protection from creatures" is an ability that includes a card type and does not include the word "card". It sounds like 702.16a and 109.2 contradict each other.
            – GendoIkari
            3 hours ago










          • 109.2. If a spell or ability uses a description of an object that includes a card type or subtype, but doesn’t include the word “card,” “spell,” “source,” or “scheme,” it means a permanent of that card type or subtype on the battlefield.
            – GendoIkari
            3 hours ago










          • Because the expanded definition of the ability explicitly states that it applies to non-permanent objects.
            – murgatroid99♦
            3 hours ago






          • 2




            @GendoIkari I don't know why they made an exception to rule 109.2, but they did.
            – Glorfindel
            3 hours ago






          • 1




            @GendoIkari thanks for pointing that out, it's slightly more convoluted than I originally thought (but still covered by the rules...).
            – Glorfindel
            3 hours ago













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          up vote
          5
          down vote













          'creature' is not only a permanent type, but also a card type. Rule 702.16a states:




          702.16a Protection is a static ability, written “Protection from [quality].”

          ...

          If the quality is a card type, subtype, or supertype, the ability applies to sources that are permanents with that card type, subtype, or supertype and to any sources not on the battlefield that are of that card type, subtype, or supertype. This is an exception to rule 109.2.



          109.2. If a spell or ability uses a description of an object that includes a card type or subtype, but doesn’t include the word “card,” “spell,” “source,” or “scheme,” it means a permanent of that card type or subtype on the battlefield.




          (emphasis mine)



          so even though while a graveyarded Carrionette is not a creature by rule 109.2, it's still a card with type 'creature' which is sufficient for the protection ability.






          share|improve this answer



















          • 1




            It is not clear to me why 109.2 does not apply here. "Protection from creatures" is an ability that includes a card type and does not include the word "card". It sounds like 702.16a and 109.2 contradict each other.
            – GendoIkari
            3 hours ago










          • 109.2. If a spell or ability uses a description of an object that includes a card type or subtype, but doesn’t include the word “card,” “spell,” “source,” or “scheme,” it means a permanent of that card type or subtype on the battlefield.
            – GendoIkari
            3 hours ago










          • Because the expanded definition of the ability explicitly states that it applies to non-permanent objects.
            – murgatroid99♦
            3 hours ago






          • 2




            @GendoIkari I don't know why they made an exception to rule 109.2, but they did.
            – Glorfindel
            3 hours ago






          • 1




            @GendoIkari thanks for pointing that out, it's slightly more convoluted than I originally thought (but still covered by the rules...).
            – Glorfindel
            3 hours ago

















          up vote
          5
          down vote













          'creature' is not only a permanent type, but also a card type. Rule 702.16a states:




          702.16a Protection is a static ability, written “Protection from [quality].”

          ...

          If the quality is a card type, subtype, or supertype, the ability applies to sources that are permanents with that card type, subtype, or supertype and to any sources not on the battlefield that are of that card type, subtype, or supertype. This is an exception to rule 109.2.



          109.2. If a spell or ability uses a description of an object that includes a card type or subtype, but doesn’t include the word “card,” “spell,” “source,” or “scheme,” it means a permanent of that card type or subtype on the battlefield.




          (emphasis mine)



          so even though while a graveyarded Carrionette is not a creature by rule 109.2, it's still a card with type 'creature' which is sufficient for the protection ability.






          share|improve this answer



















          • 1




            It is not clear to me why 109.2 does not apply here. "Protection from creatures" is an ability that includes a card type and does not include the word "card". It sounds like 702.16a and 109.2 contradict each other.
            – GendoIkari
            3 hours ago










          • 109.2. If a spell or ability uses a description of an object that includes a card type or subtype, but doesn’t include the word “card,” “spell,” “source,” or “scheme,” it means a permanent of that card type or subtype on the battlefield.
            – GendoIkari
            3 hours ago










          • Because the expanded definition of the ability explicitly states that it applies to non-permanent objects.
            – murgatroid99♦
            3 hours ago






          • 2




            @GendoIkari I don't know why they made an exception to rule 109.2, but they did.
            – Glorfindel
            3 hours ago






          • 1




            @GendoIkari thanks for pointing that out, it's slightly more convoluted than I originally thought (but still covered by the rules...).
            – Glorfindel
            3 hours ago















          up vote
          5
          down vote










          up vote
          5
          down vote









          'creature' is not only a permanent type, but also a card type. Rule 702.16a states:




          702.16a Protection is a static ability, written “Protection from [quality].”

          ...

          If the quality is a card type, subtype, or supertype, the ability applies to sources that are permanents with that card type, subtype, or supertype and to any sources not on the battlefield that are of that card type, subtype, or supertype. This is an exception to rule 109.2.



          109.2. If a spell or ability uses a description of an object that includes a card type or subtype, but doesn’t include the word “card,” “spell,” “source,” or “scheme,” it means a permanent of that card type or subtype on the battlefield.




          (emphasis mine)



          so even though while a graveyarded Carrionette is not a creature by rule 109.2, it's still a card with type 'creature' which is sufficient for the protection ability.






          share|improve this answer














          'creature' is not only a permanent type, but also a card type. Rule 702.16a states:




          702.16a Protection is a static ability, written “Protection from [quality].”

          ...

          If the quality is a card type, subtype, or supertype, the ability applies to sources that are permanents with that card type, subtype, or supertype and to any sources not on the battlefield that are of that card type, subtype, or supertype. This is an exception to rule 109.2.



          109.2. If a spell or ability uses a description of an object that includes a card type or subtype, but doesn’t include the word “card,” “spell,” “source,” or “scheme,” it means a permanent of that card type or subtype on the battlefield.




          (emphasis mine)



          so even though while a graveyarded Carrionette is not a creature by rule 109.2, it's still a card with type 'creature' which is sufficient for the protection ability.







          share|improve this answer














          share|improve this answer



          share|improve this answer








          edited 3 hours ago

























          answered 3 hours ago









          Glorfindel

          1,6371723




          1,6371723








          • 1




            It is not clear to me why 109.2 does not apply here. "Protection from creatures" is an ability that includes a card type and does not include the word "card". It sounds like 702.16a and 109.2 contradict each other.
            – GendoIkari
            3 hours ago










          • 109.2. If a spell or ability uses a description of an object that includes a card type or subtype, but doesn’t include the word “card,” “spell,” “source,” or “scheme,” it means a permanent of that card type or subtype on the battlefield.
            – GendoIkari
            3 hours ago










          • Because the expanded definition of the ability explicitly states that it applies to non-permanent objects.
            – murgatroid99♦
            3 hours ago






          • 2




            @GendoIkari I don't know why they made an exception to rule 109.2, but they did.
            – Glorfindel
            3 hours ago






          • 1




            @GendoIkari thanks for pointing that out, it's slightly more convoluted than I originally thought (but still covered by the rules...).
            – Glorfindel
            3 hours ago
















          • 1




            It is not clear to me why 109.2 does not apply here. "Protection from creatures" is an ability that includes a card type and does not include the word "card". It sounds like 702.16a and 109.2 contradict each other.
            – GendoIkari
            3 hours ago










          • 109.2. If a spell or ability uses a description of an object that includes a card type or subtype, but doesn’t include the word “card,” “spell,” “source,” or “scheme,” it means a permanent of that card type or subtype on the battlefield.
            – GendoIkari
            3 hours ago










          • Because the expanded definition of the ability explicitly states that it applies to non-permanent objects.
            – murgatroid99♦
            3 hours ago






          • 2




            @GendoIkari I don't know why they made an exception to rule 109.2, but they did.
            – Glorfindel
            3 hours ago






          • 1




            @GendoIkari thanks for pointing that out, it's slightly more convoluted than I originally thought (but still covered by the rules...).
            – Glorfindel
            3 hours ago










          1




          1




          It is not clear to me why 109.2 does not apply here. "Protection from creatures" is an ability that includes a card type and does not include the word "card". It sounds like 702.16a and 109.2 contradict each other.
          – GendoIkari
          3 hours ago




          It is not clear to me why 109.2 does not apply here. "Protection from creatures" is an ability that includes a card type and does not include the word "card". It sounds like 702.16a and 109.2 contradict each other.
          – GendoIkari
          3 hours ago












          109.2. If a spell or ability uses a description of an object that includes a card type or subtype, but doesn’t include the word “card,” “spell,” “source,” or “scheme,” it means a permanent of that card type or subtype on the battlefield.
          – GendoIkari
          3 hours ago




          109.2. If a spell or ability uses a description of an object that includes a card type or subtype, but doesn’t include the word “card,” “spell,” “source,” or “scheme,” it means a permanent of that card type or subtype on the battlefield.
          – GendoIkari
          3 hours ago












          Because the expanded definition of the ability explicitly states that it applies to non-permanent objects.
          – murgatroid99♦
          3 hours ago




          Because the expanded definition of the ability explicitly states that it applies to non-permanent objects.
          – murgatroid99♦
          3 hours ago




          2




          2




          @GendoIkari I don't know why they made an exception to rule 109.2, but they did.
          – Glorfindel
          3 hours ago




          @GendoIkari I don't know why they made an exception to rule 109.2, but they did.
          – Glorfindel
          3 hours ago




          1




          1




          @GendoIkari thanks for pointing that out, it's slightly more convoluted than I originally thought (but still covered by the rules...).
          – Glorfindel
          3 hours ago






          @GendoIkari thanks for pointing that out, it's slightly more convoluted than I originally thought (but still covered by the rules...).
          – Glorfindel
          3 hours ago




















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