Compensation for Delayed Train Due to London Underground Issue











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My question is quite specific, and I hope it's on topic here because I'm really unsure where to ask it! If it isn't on topic, as well as marking it as such I would ask that you please help me out by suggesting where to ask!
This is a question about UK trains.



Last weekend I took the train from Cambridge to Cheltenham (Spa), via London -- specifically via King's Cross and Paddington. There was a delay on the tube (fire alarm at Baker Street), which meant that I missed my train from Paddington to Cheltenham, and had to get one that got in just over an hour later.



I was under the impression that, because I was delayed by more than 1hr, I was entitled to a full refund of my single ticket. However, GWR weren't interested in paying for the refund, since it wasn't on their train that there was an issue -- and I completely understand and agree with this! However, when I spoke to Customer Service for TfL, I was told that I would be refunded the price of the tube journey -- so about £2.60, or something like that, while the ticket in total cost ~£15.



While GWR, Great Northern, etc operate this "30mins => half refund || 1hr => full refund" policy (with some minor variations between TOCs), do TfL not adhere to this? Should I be able to get the full ~£15 back? If so, I assume it would be from TfL.



On the other hand, since TfL only handle a small part of the journey, if I was say going from Penzance to Aberdeen via London and I was slightly delayed by TfL, but in a way that meant I had to get a train an hour later, it seems unreasonable to expect TfL to fork out some £100+ for the delay...



Any advice would be most appreciated, thanks!










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Sam T is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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    up vote
    4
    down vote

    favorite












    My question is quite specific, and I hope it's on topic here because I'm really unsure where to ask it! If it isn't on topic, as well as marking it as such I would ask that you please help me out by suggesting where to ask!
    This is a question about UK trains.



    Last weekend I took the train from Cambridge to Cheltenham (Spa), via London -- specifically via King's Cross and Paddington. There was a delay on the tube (fire alarm at Baker Street), which meant that I missed my train from Paddington to Cheltenham, and had to get one that got in just over an hour later.



    I was under the impression that, because I was delayed by more than 1hr, I was entitled to a full refund of my single ticket. However, GWR weren't interested in paying for the refund, since it wasn't on their train that there was an issue -- and I completely understand and agree with this! However, when I spoke to Customer Service for TfL, I was told that I would be refunded the price of the tube journey -- so about £2.60, or something like that, while the ticket in total cost ~£15.



    While GWR, Great Northern, etc operate this "30mins => half refund || 1hr => full refund" policy (with some minor variations between TOCs), do TfL not adhere to this? Should I be able to get the full ~£15 back? If so, I assume it would be from TfL.



    On the other hand, since TfL only handle a small part of the journey, if I was say going from Penzance to Aberdeen via London and I was slightly delayed by TfL, but in a way that meant I had to get a train an hour later, it seems unreasonable to expect TfL to fork out some £100+ for the delay...



    Any advice would be most appreciated, thanks!










    share|improve this question









    New contributor




    Sam T is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
    Check out our Code of Conduct.






















      up vote
      4
      down vote

      favorite









      up vote
      4
      down vote

      favorite











      My question is quite specific, and I hope it's on topic here because I'm really unsure where to ask it! If it isn't on topic, as well as marking it as such I would ask that you please help me out by suggesting where to ask!
      This is a question about UK trains.



      Last weekend I took the train from Cambridge to Cheltenham (Spa), via London -- specifically via King's Cross and Paddington. There was a delay on the tube (fire alarm at Baker Street), which meant that I missed my train from Paddington to Cheltenham, and had to get one that got in just over an hour later.



      I was under the impression that, because I was delayed by more than 1hr, I was entitled to a full refund of my single ticket. However, GWR weren't interested in paying for the refund, since it wasn't on their train that there was an issue -- and I completely understand and agree with this! However, when I spoke to Customer Service for TfL, I was told that I would be refunded the price of the tube journey -- so about £2.60, or something like that, while the ticket in total cost ~£15.



      While GWR, Great Northern, etc operate this "30mins => half refund || 1hr => full refund" policy (with some minor variations between TOCs), do TfL not adhere to this? Should I be able to get the full ~£15 back? If so, I assume it would be from TfL.



      On the other hand, since TfL only handle a small part of the journey, if I was say going from Penzance to Aberdeen via London and I was slightly delayed by TfL, but in a way that meant I had to get a train an hour later, it seems unreasonable to expect TfL to fork out some £100+ for the delay...



      Any advice would be most appreciated, thanks!










      share|improve this question









      New contributor




      Sam T is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
      Check out our Code of Conduct.











      My question is quite specific, and I hope it's on topic here because I'm really unsure where to ask it! If it isn't on topic, as well as marking it as such I would ask that you please help me out by suggesting where to ask!
      This is a question about UK trains.



      Last weekend I took the train from Cambridge to Cheltenham (Spa), via London -- specifically via King's Cross and Paddington. There was a delay on the tube (fire alarm at Baker Street), which meant that I missed my train from Paddington to Cheltenham, and had to get one that got in just over an hour later.



      I was under the impression that, because I was delayed by more than 1hr, I was entitled to a full refund of my single ticket. However, GWR weren't interested in paying for the refund, since it wasn't on their train that there was an issue -- and I completely understand and agree with this! However, when I spoke to Customer Service for TfL, I was told that I would be refunded the price of the tube journey -- so about £2.60, or something like that, while the ticket in total cost ~£15.



      While GWR, Great Northern, etc operate this "30mins => half refund || 1hr => full refund" policy (with some minor variations between TOCs), do TfL not adhere to this? Should I be able to get the full ~£15 back? If so, I assume it would be from TfL.



      On the other hand, since TfL only handle a small part of the journey, if I was say going from Penzance to Aberdeen via London and I was slightly delayed by TfL, but in a way that meant I had to get a train an hour later, it seems unreasonable to expect TfL to fork out some £100+ for the delay...



      Any advice would be most appreciated, thanks!







      uk trains delays compensation tfl






      share|improve this question









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      Sam T is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
      Check out our Code of Conduct.











      share|improve this question









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      Sam T is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
      Check out our Code of Conduct.









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      edited 5 hours ago









      B.Liu

      2,5622727




      2,5622727






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      asked 6 hours ago









      Sam T

      1233




      1233




      New contributor




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      Check out our Code of Conduct.





      New contributor





      Sam T is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
      Check out our Code of Conduct.






      Sam T is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
      Check out our Code of Conduct.






















          1 Answer
          1






          active

          oldest

          votes

















          up vote
          6
          down vote



          accepted










          Summary: Tough luck, you probably got as much money back as you could from TfL given the circumstances you've described, as the Tube operates much differently from NR train companies.




          TfL London Underground is different from NR franchised Train Companies



          While the National Rail (NR) franchised train companies has their own passenger charters, which specifies the level of service customers should expect, and more importantly, the level of compensation a customer can seek, Transport for London (TfL), or more specifically London Underground, is not on the list of Train Companies.



          This is further confirmed in the National Rail Conditions of Travel, where London Underground is specifically excluded (page 31):




          “Rail Service Provider” means Network Rail, any organisation or person (other than a Train
          Company) that operates a station and any person or organisation that hires rolling stock to a
          Train Company, but does not include London Underground;



          “Train Company” means a company operating passenger railway services which is required
          to apply these Conditions to persons purchasing Tickets, under a condition of the passenger
          licence granted to the company by the Office of Rail and Road. [...] A list of these train
          companies can be found in Appendix A.




          For avoidance of doubt, London Underground is not included in Appendix A.
          There are some nuances on London Overground and TfL Rail, while being under TfL control, actually being "franchised" train companies, but we will steer clear from that as the OP is likely to have taken neither in this journey.



          London Underground gets to say how much they are compensating



          As a result, what the OP expected on TOCs, which I quote:




          While GWR, Great Northern, etc operate this "30mins => half refund || 1hr => full refund" policy (with some minor variations between TOCs)[...]




          ... does not really apply. Instead we should look at TfL's condition of carriage (emphasis mine):




          8.1.3 If your Tube journey was delayed by 15 minutes or more for reasons within our control, we
          will refund you the single pay as you go fare for the journey on which you were delayed. We will
          refund the cash value, for the delayed Tube journey, if you bought a paper single or return ticket.
          You must apply online within 28 days of the delayed journey.




          Notice the use of "Tube journey" instead of a mere "journey" in this clause. This has essentially free TfL from the responsibility in paying out compensation for the rest of your train journey. The term "National Rail" does not feature in the Refunds section (Section 8) of the condition either.



          In conclusion, TfL says you are only entitled to compensation for the delay on your tube leg only, but not delay(s) on the subsequent NR leg(s), even it is (they are) a direct consequence of the tube delay.





          As an aside, I am quite amazed that Customer Service for TfL actually offered a refund given the circumstances the OP has described. This is not aligned to what TfL say in their condition of carriage:




          8.1.4 You can’t get a refund if your journey was delayed as a result of planned service changes
          and engineering works or for a reason outside our control, like:



          • a security alert

          • a customer incident, e.g. a person ill on a train

          • adverse weather conditions




          which I think a fire alarm could easily qualify.






          share|improve this answer























          • I am aware the answer is very wordy as it currently stands - any suggestions on how to make it cleaner is much appreciated!
            – B.Liu
            5 hours ago










          • Thanks, excellent answer. I didn't find it too wordy! On the contrary, I prefer full explanations, rather than summaries. Basically you've said exactly what I expected to be the case, except I hadn't seen the exact references. I thought the main difference would be that TfL aren't a TOC (except, possibly for the franchises you mentioned; but, as you say, I didn't use those in this case). Also, I was also slightly surprised that TfL offered a refund, for the reasons you outline.
            – Sam T
            3 hours ago












          • Also, I actually had an advanced ticket out of Paddington, and I had to work a little to get the (unfortunately pretty rude) GWR staff to allow me on the next train -- amazingly, it took me about 15mins to actually convince them that there was a fire alarm at Baker St, and I wasn't just making it up! =P
            – Sam T
            3 hours ago










          • @SamT Hmm... I was going to ask if your ticket was an advance ticket, as £15 from CBG to CNM sounds a great deal. In this case, even if the tube is now operated by a TOC your ground in claiming a refund is not huge, as I have an impression that every advance ticket is treated as a separate journey in NR terms.
            – B.Liu
            3 hours ago













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          1 Answer
          1






          active

          oldest

          votes








          1 Answer
          1






          active

          oldest

          votes









          active

          oldest

          votes






          active

          oldest

          votes








          up vote
          6
          down vote



          accepted










          Summary: Tough luck, you probably got as much money back as you could from TfL given the circumstances you've described, as the Tube operates much differently from NR train companies.




          TfL London Underground is different from NR franchised Train Companies



          While the National Rail (NR) franchised train companies has their own passenger charters, which specifies the level of service customers should expect, and more importantly, the level of compensation a customer can seek, Transport for London (TfL), or more specifically London Underground, is not on the list of Train Companies.



          This is further confirmed in the National Rail Conditions of Travel, where London Underground is specifically excluded (page 31):




          “Rail Service Provider” means Network Rail, any organisation or person (other than a Train
          Company) that operates a station and any person or organisation that hires rolling stock to a
          Train Company, but does not include London Underground;



          “Train Company” means a company operating passenger railway services which is required
          to apply these Conditions to persons purchasing Tickets, under a condition of the passenger
          licence granted to the company by the Office of Rail and Road. [...] A list of these train
          companies can be found in Appendix A.




          For avoidance of doubt, London Underground is not included in Appendix A.
          There are some nuances on London Overground and TfL Rail, while being under TfL control, actually being "franchised" train companies, but we will steer clear from that as the OP is likely to have taken neither in this journey.



          London Underground gets to say how much they are compensating



          As a result, what the OP expected on TOCs, which I quote:




          While GWR, Great Northern, etc operate this "30mins => half refund || 1hr => full refund" policy (with some minor variations between TOCs)[...]




          ... does not really apply. Instead we should look at TfL's condition of carriage (emphasis mine):




          8.1.3 If your Tube journey was delayed by 15 minutes or more for reasons within our control, we
          will refund you the single pay as you go fare for the journey on which you were delayed. We will
          refund the cash value, for the delayed Tube journey, if you bought a paper single or return ticket.
          You must apply online within 28 days of the delayed journey.




          Notice the use of "Tube journey" instead of a mere "journey" in this clause. This has essentially free TfL from the responsibility in paying out compensation for the rest of your train journey. The term "National Rail" does not feature in the Refunds section (Section 8) of the condition either.



          In conclusion, TfL says you are only entitled to compensation for the delay on your tube leg only, but not delay(s) on the subsequent NR leg(s), even it is (they are) a direct consequence of the tube delay.





          As an aside, I am quite amazed that Customer Service for TfL actually offered a refund given the circumstances the OP has described. This is not aligned to what TfL say in their condition of carriage:




          8.1.4 You can’t get a refund if your journey was delayed as a result of planned service changes
          and engineering works or for a reason outside our control, like:



          • a security alert

          • a customer incident, e.g. a person ill on a train

          • adverse weather conditions




          which I think a fire alarm could easily qualify.






          share|improve this answer























          • I am aware the answer is very wordy as it currently stands - any suggestions on how to make it cleaner is much appreciated!
            – B.Liu
            5 hours ago










          • Thanks, excellent answer. I didn't find it too wordy! On the contrary, I prefer full explanations, rather than summaries. Basically you've said exactly what I expected to be the case, except I hadn't seen the exact references. I thought the main difference would be that TfL aren't a TOC (except, possibly for the franchises you mentioned; but, as you say, I didn't use those in this case). Also, I was also slightly surprised that TfL offered a refund, for the reasons you outline.
            – Sam T
            3 hours ago












          • Also, I actually had an advanced ticket out of Paddington, and I had to work a little to get the (unfortunately pretty rude) GWR staff to allow me on the next train -- amazingly, it took me about 15mins to actually convince them that there was a fire alarm at Baker St, and I wasn't just making it up! =P
            – Sam T
            3 hours ago










          • @SamT Hmm... I was going to ask if your ticket was an advance ticket, as £15 from CBG to CNM sounds a great deal. In this case, even if the tube is now operated by a TOC your ground in claiming a refund is not huge, as I have an impression that every advance ticket is treated as a separate journey in NR terms.
            – B.Liu
            3 hours ago

















          up vote
          6
          down vote



          accepted










          Summary: Tough luck, you probably got as much money back as you could from TfL given the circumstances you've described, as the Tube operates much differently from NR train companies.




          TfL London Underground is different from NR franchised Train Companies



          While the National Rail (NR) franchised train companies has their own passenger charters, which specifies the level of service customers should expect, and more importantly, the level of compensation a customer can seek, Transport for London (TfL), or more specifically London Underground, is not on the list of Train Companies.



          This is further confirmed in the National Rail Conditions of Travel, where London Underground is specifically excluded (page 31):




          “Rail Service Provider” means Network Rail, any organisation or person (other than a Train
          Company) that operates a station and any person or organisation that hires rolling stock to a
          Train Company, but does not include London Underground;



          “Train Company” means a company operating passenger railway services which is required
          to apply these Conditions to persons purchasing Tickets, under a condition of the passenger
          licence granted to the company by the Office of Rail and Road. [...] A list of these train
          companies can be found in Appendix A.




          For avoidance of doubt, London Underground is not included in Appendix A.
          There are some nuances on London Overground and TfL Rail, while being under TfL control, actually being "franchised" train companies, but we will steer clear from that as the OP is likely to have taken neither in this journey.



          London Underground gets to say how much they are compensating



          As a result, what the OP expected on TOCs, which I quote:




          While GWR, Great Northern, etc operate this "30mins => half refund || 1hr => full refund" policy (with some minor variations between TOCs)[...]




          ... does not really apply. Instead we should look at TfL's condition of carriage (emphasis mine):




          8.1.3 If your Tube journey was delayed by 15 minutes or more for reasons within our control, we
          will refund you the single pay as you go fare for the journey on which you were delayed. We will
          refund the cash value, for the delayed Tube journey, if you bought a paper single or return ticket.
          You must apply online within 28 days of the delayed journey.




          Notice the use of "Tube journey" instead of a mere "journey" in this clause. This has essentially free TfL from the responsibility in paying out compensation for the rest of your train journey. The term "National Rail" does not feature in the Refunds section (Section 8) of the condition either.



          In conclusion, TfL says you are only entitled to compensation for the delay on your tube leg only, but not delay(s) on the subsequent NR leg(s), even it is (they are) a direct consequence of the tube delay.





          As an aside, I am quite amazed that Customer Service for TfL actually offered a refund given the circumstances the OP has described. This is not aligned to what TfL say in their condition of carriage:




          8.1.4 You can’t get a refund if your journey was delayed as a result of planned service changes
          and engineering works or for a reason outside our control, like:



          • a security alert

          • a customer incident, e.g. a person ill on a train

          • adverse weather conditions




          which I think a fire alarm could easily qualify.






          share|improve this answer























          • I am aware the answer is very wordy as it currently stands - any suggestions on how to make it cleaner is much appreciated!
            – B.Liu
            5 hours ago










          • Thanks, excellent answer. I didn't find it too wordy! On the contrary, I prefer full explanations, rather than summaries. Basically you've said exactly what I expected to be the case, except I hadn't seen the exact references. I thought the main difference would be that TfL aren't a TOC (except, possibly for the franchises you mentioned; but, as you say, I didn't use those in this case). Also, I was also slightly surprised that TfL offered a refund, for the reasons you outline.
            – Sam T
            3 hours ago












          • Also, I actually had an advanced ticket out of Paddington, and I had to work a little to get the (unfortunately pretty rude) GWR staff to allow me on the next train -- amazingly, it took me about 15mins to actually convince them that there was a fire alarm at Baker St, and I wasn't just making it up! =P
            – Sam T
            3 hours ago










          • @SamT Hmm... I was going to ask if your ticket was an advance ticket, as £15 from CBG to CNM sounds a great deal. In this case, even if the tube is now operated by a TOC your ground in claiming a refund is not huge, as I have an impression that every advance ticket is treated as a separate journey in NR terms.
            – B.Liu
            3 hours ago















          up vote
          6
          down vote



          accepted







          up vote
          6
          down vote



          accepted






          Summary: Tough luck, you probably got as much money back as you could from TfL given the circumstances you've described, as the Tube operates much differently from NR train companies.




          TfL London Underground is different from NR franchised Train Companies



          While the National Rail (NR) franchised train companies has their own passenger charters, which specifies the level of service customers should expect, and more importantly, the level of compensation a customer can seek, Transport for London (TfL), or more specifically London Underground, is not on the list of Train Companies.



          This is further confirmed in the National Rail Conditions of Travel, where London Underground is specifically excluded (page 31):




          “Rail Service Provider” means Network Rail, any organisation or person (other than a Train
          Company) that operates a station and any person or organisation that hires rolling stock to a
          Train Company, but does not include London Underground;



          “Train Company” means a company operating passenger railway services which is required
          to apply these Conditions to persons purchasing Tickets, under a condition of the passenger
          licence granted to the company by the Office of Rail and Road. [...] A list of these train
          companies can be found in Appendix A.




          For avoidance of doubt, London Underground is not included in Appendix A.
          There are some nuances on London Overground and TfL Rail, while being under TfL control, actually being "franchised" train companies, but we will steer clear from that as the OP is likely to have taken neither in this journey.



          London Underground gets to say how much they are compensating



          As a result, what the OP expected on TOCs, which I quote:




          While GWR, Great Northern, etc operate this "30mins => half refund || 1hr => full refund" policy (with some minor variations between TOCs)[...]




          ... does not really apply. Instead we should look at TfL's condition of carriage (emphasis mine):




          8.1.3 If your Tube journey was delayed by 15 minutes or more for reasons within our control, we
          will refund you the single pay as you go fare for the journey on which you were delayed. We will
          refund the cash value, for the delayed Tube journey, if you bought a paper single or return ticket.
          You must apply online within 28 days of the delayed journey.




          Notice the use of "Tube journey" instead of a mere "journey" in this clause. This has essentially free TfL from the responsibility in paying out compensation for the rest of your train journey. The term "National Rail" does not feature in the Refunds section (Section 8) of the condition either.



          In conclusion, TfL says you are only entitled to compensation for the delay on your tube leg only, but not delay(s) on the subsequent NR leg(s), even it is (they are) a direct consequence of the tube delay.





          As an aside, I am quite amazed that Customer Service for TfL actually offered a refund given the circumstances the OP has described. This is not aligned to what TfL say in their condition of carriage:




          8.1.4 You can’t get a refund if your journey was delayed as a result of planned service changes
          and engineering works or for a reason outside our control, like:



          • a security alert

          • a customer incident, e.g. a person ill on a train

          • adverse weather conditions




          which I think a fire alarm could easily qualify.






          share|improve this answer














          Summary: Tough luck, you probably got as much money back as you could from TfL given the circumstances you've described, as the Tube operates much differently from NR train companies.




          TfL London Underground is different from NR franchised Train Companies



          While the National Rail (NR) franchised train companies has their own passenger charters, which specifies the level of service customers should expect, and more importantly, the level of compensation a customer can seek, Transport for London (TfL), or more specifically London Underground, is not on the list of Train Companies.



          This is further confirmed in the National Rail Conditions of Travel, where London Underground is specifically excluded (page 31):




          “Rail Service Provider” means Network Rail, any organisation or person (other than a Train
          Company) that operates a station and any person or organisation that hires rolling stock to a
          Train Company, but does not include London Underground;



          “Train Company” means a company operating passenger railway services which is required
          to apply these Conditions to persons purchasing Tickets, under a condition of the passenger
          licence granted to the company by the Office of Rail and Road. [...] A list of these train
          companies can be found in Appendix A.




          For avoidance of doubt, London Underground is not included in Appendix A.
          There are some nuances on London Overground and TfL Rail, while being under TfL control, actually being "franchised" train companies, but we will steer clear from that as the OP is likely to have taken neither in this journey.



          London Underground gets to say how much they are compensating



          As a result, what the OP expected on TOCs, which I quote:




          While GWR, Great Northern, etc operate this "30mins => half refund || 1hr => full refund" policy (with some minor variations between TOCs)[...]




          ... does not really apply. Instead we should look at TfL's condition of carriage (emphasis mine):




          8.1.3 If your Tube journey was delayed by 15 minutes or more for reasons within our control, we
          will refund you the single pay as you go fare for the journey on which you were delayed. We will
          refund the cash value, for the delayed Tube journey, if you bought a paper single or return ticket.
          You must apply online within 28 days of the delayed journey.




          Notice the use of "Tube journey" instead of a mere "journey" in this clause. This has essentially free TfL from the responsibility in paying out compensation for the rest of your train journey. The term "National Rail" does not feature in the Refunds section (Section 8) of the condition either.



          In conclusion, TfL says you are only entitled to compensation for the delay on your tube leg only, but not delay(s) on the subsequent NR leg(s), even it is (they are) a direct consequence of the tube delay.





          As an aside, I am quite amazed that Customer Service for TfL actually offered a refund given the circumstances the OP has described. This is not aligned to what TfL say in their condition of carriage:




          8.1.4 You can’t get a refund if your journey was delayed as a result of planned service changes
          and engineering works or for a reason outside our control, like:



          • a security alert

          • a customer incident, e.g. a person ill on a train

          • adverse weather conditions




          which I think a fire alarm could easily qualify.







          share|improve this answer














          share|improve this answer



          share|improve this answer








          edited 5 hours ago

























          answered 5 hours ago









          B.Liu

          2,5622727




          2,5622727












          • I am aware the answer is very wordy as it currently stands - any suggestions on how to make it cleaner is much appreciated!
            – B.Liu
            5 hours ago










          • Thanks, excellent answer. I didn't find it too wordy! On the contrary, I prefer full explanations, rather than summaries. Basically you've said exactly what I expected to be the case, except I hadn't seen the exact references. I thought the main difference would be that TfL aren't a TOC (except, possibly for the franchises you mentioned; but, as you say, I didn't use those in this case). Also, I was also slightly surprised that TfL offered a refund, for the reasons you outline.
            – Sam T
            3 hours ago












          • Also, I actually had an advanced ticket out of Paddington, and I had to work a little to get the (unfortunately pretty rude) GWR staff to allow me on the next train -- amazingly, it took me about 15mins to actually convince them that there was a fire alarm at Baker St, and I wasn't just making it up! =P
            – Sam T
            3 hours ago










          • @SamT Hmm... I was going to ask if your ticket was an advance ticket, as £15 from CBG to CNM sounds a great deal. In this case, even if the tube is now operated by a TOC your ground in claiming a refund is not huge, as I have an impression that every advance ticket is treated as a separate journey in NR terms.
            – B.Liu
            3 hours ago




















          • I am aware the answer is very wordy as it currently stands - any suggestions on how to make it cleaner is much appreciated!
            – B.Liu
            5 hours ago










          • Thanks, excellent answer. I didn't find it too wordy! On the contrary, I prefer full explanations, rather than summaries. Basically you've said exactly what I expected to be the case, except I hadn't seen the exact references. I thought the main difference would be that TfL aren't a TOC (except, possibly for the franchises you mentioned; but, as you say, I didn't use those in this case). Also, I was also slightly surprised that TfL offered a refund, for the reasons you outline.
            – Sam T
            3 hours ago












          • Also, I actually had an advanced ticket out of Paddington, and I had to work a little to get the (unfortunately pretty rude) GWR staff to allow me on the next train -- amazingly, it took me about 15mins to actually convince them that there was a fire alarm at Baker St, and I wasn't just making it up! =P
            – Sam T
            3 hours ago










          • @SamT Hmm... I was going to ask if your ticket was an advance ticket, as £15 from CBG to CNM sounds a great deal. In this case, even if the tube is now operated by a TOC your ground in claiming a refund is not huge, as I have an impression that every advance ticket is treated as a separate journey in NR terms.
            – B.Liu
            3 hours ago


















          I am aware the answer is very wordy as it currently stands - any suggestions on how to make it cleaner is much appreciated!
          – B.Liu
          5 hours ago




          I am aware the answer is very wordy as it currently stands - any suggestions on how to make it cleaner is much appreciated!
          – B.Liu
          5 hours ago












          Thanks, excellent answer. I didn't find it too wordy! On the contrary, I prefer full explanations, rather than summaries. Basically you've said exactly what I expected to be the case, except I hadn't seen the exact references. I thought the main difference would be that TfL aren't a TOC (except, possibly for the franchises you mentioned; but, as you say, I didn't use those in this case). Also, I was also slightly surprised that TfL offered a refund, for the reasons you outline.
          – Sam T
          3 hours ago






          Thanks, excellent answer. I didn't find it too wordy! On the contrary, I prefer full explanations, rather than summaries. Basically you've said exactly what I expected to be the case, except I hadn't seen the exact references. I thought the main difference would be that TfL aren't a TOC (except, possibly for the franchises you mentioned; but, as you say, I didn't use those in this case). Also, I was also slightly surprised that TfL offered a refund, for the reasons you outline.
          – Sam T
          3 hours ago














          Also, I actually had an advanced ticket out of Paddington, and I had to work a little to get the (unfortunately pretty rude) GWR staff to allow me on the next train -- amazingly, it took me about 15mins to actually convince them that there was a fire alarm at Baker St, and I wasn't just making it up! =P
          – Sam T
          3 hours ago




          Also, I actually had an advanced ticket out of Paddington, and I had to work a little to get the (unfortunately pretty rude) GWR staff to allow me on the next train -- amazingly, it took me about 15mins to actually convince them that there was a fire alarm at Baker St, and I wasn't just making it up! =P
          – Sam T
          3 hours ago












          @SamT Hmm... I was going to ask if your ticket was an advance ticket, as £15 from CBG to CNM sounds a great deal. In this case, even if the tube is now operated by a TOC your ground in claiming a refund is not huge, as I have an impression that every advance ticket is treated as a separate journey in NR terms.
          – B.Liu
          3 hours ago






          @SamT Hmm... I was going to ask if your ticket was an advance ticket, as £15 from CBG to CNM sounds a great deal. In this case, even if the tube is now operated by a TOC your ground in claiming a refund is not huge, as I have an impression that every advance ticket is treated as a separate journey in NR terms.
          – B.Liu
          3 hours ago












          Sam T is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.










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