Why did the Torah need to be given if the Avos knew and kept it?
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It is a common theme in aggadic literature that
- The Avos were incredible tzadikim
- They more-or-less kept the entire Torah, including some derabannans
If the mitzvos were already known and kept, and the full text was not necessary for them to have perfection in their middos, why was Revelation necessary?
(I would guess that a potential answer is that their descendants forgot it, but that also seems strange. See also here.)
avot-patriarch-fathers kabbalat-hatorah genesis-bereishith
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up vote
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It is a common theme in aggadic literature that
- The Avos were incredible tzadikim
- They more-or-less kept the entire Torah, including some derabannans
If the mitzvos were already known and kept, and the full text was not necessary for them to have perfection in their middos, why was Revelation necessary?
(I would guess that a potential answer is that their descendants forgot it, but that also seems strange. See also here.)
avot-patriarch-fathers kabbalat-hatorah genesis-bereishith
Do the agados you refer to address the question? Which are the agados you have in mind that express this theme?
– WAF
4 hours ago
Related: judaism.stackexchange.com/questions/4078/avot-keeping-mitzvot
– Isaac Moses♦
1 hour ago
add a comment |
up vote
4
down vote
favorite
up vote
4
down vote
favorite
It is a common theme in aggadic literature that
- The Avos were incredible tzadikim
- They more-or-less kept the entire Torah, including some derabannans
If the mitzvos were already known and kept, and the full text was not necessary for them to have perfection in their middos, why was Revelation necessary?
(I would guess that a potential answer is that their descendants forgot it, but that also seems strange. See also here.)
avot-patriarch-fathers kabbalat-hatorah genesis-bereishith
It is a common theme in aggadic literature that
- The Avos were incredible tzadikim
- They more-or-less kept the entire Torah, including some derabannans
If the mitzvos were already known and kept, and the full text was not necessary for them to have perfection in their middos, why was Revelation necessary?
(I would guess that a potential answer is that their descendants forgot it, but that also seems strange. See also here.)
avot-patriarch-fathers kabbalat-hatorah genesis-bereishith
avot-patriarch-fathers kabbalat-hatorah genesis-bereishith
asked 7 hours ago
Arithmomaniac
609413
609413
Do the agados you refer to address the question? Which are the agados you have in mind that express this theme?
– WAF
4 hours ago
Related: judaism.stackexchange.com/questions/4078/avot-keeping-mitzvot
– Isaac Moses♦
1 hour ago
add a comment |
Do the agados you refer to address the question? Which are the agados you have in mind that express this theme?
– WAF
4 hours ago
Related: judaism.stackexchange.com/questions/4078/avot-keeping-mitzvot
– Isaac Moses♦
1 hour ago
Do the agados you refer to address the question? Which are the agados you have in mind that express this theme?
– WAF
4 hours ago
Do the agados you refer to address the question? Which are the agados you have in mind that express this theme?
– WAF
4 hours ago
Related: judaism.stackexchange.com/questions/4078/avot-keeping-mitzvot
– Isaac Moses♦
1 hour ago
Related: judaism.stackexchange.com/questions/4078/avot-keeping-mitzvot
– Isaac Moses♦
1 hour ago
add a comment |
1 Answer
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1) Revelation at Har Sinai was necessary to make it mandatory. As Mizrachi explains, the reason Avraham waited, until commanded, to perform circumcision is because there is greater merit in fulfilling a commanded mitzvah than an uncommanded one.
2) See the Rashba's explanation / understanding of this idea, that they were spiritually sophisticated and understood and intuited the fundamentals, applying it to their unique circumstances. This is not the same as keeping all the mitzvot.
3) But even according to the common explanation, Chazal said regarding Avraham "that his two kidneys expressed to him chochma like two teachers". This is intuition and knowledge of how to act, in according with Biblical and even Rabbinic law. Without a fixed text and methods by which to understand principles and derive law, one cannot expect subsequent generations to be similarly sophisticated and intuit how to act.
add a comment |
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
6
down vote
1) Revelation at Har Sinai was necessary to make it mandatory. As Mizrachi explains, the reason Avraham waited, until commanded, to perform circumcision is because there is greater merit in fulfilling a commanded mitzvah than an uncommanded one.
2) See the Rashba's explanation / understanding of this idea, that they were spiritually sophisticated and understood and intuited the fundamentals, applying it to their unique circumstances. This is not the same as keeping all the mitzvot.
3) But even according to the common explanation, Chazal said regarding Avraham "that his two kidneys expressed to him chochma like two teachers". This is intuition and knowledge of how to act, in according with Biblical and even Rabbinic law. Without a fixed text and methods by which to understand principles and derive law, one cannot expect subsequent generations to be similarly sophisticated and intuit how to act.
add a comment |
up vote
6
down vote
1) Revelation at Har Sinai was necessary to make it mandatory. As Mizrachi explains, the reason Avraham waited, until commanded, to perform circumcision is because there is greater merit in fulfilling a commanded mitzvah than an uncommanded one.
2) See the Rashba's explanation / understanding of this idea, that they were spiritually sophisticated and understood and intuited the fundamentals, applying it to their unique circumstances. This is not the same as keeping all the mitzvot.
3) But even according to the common explanation, Chazal said regarding Avraham "that his two kidneys expressed to him chochma like two teachers". This is intuition and knowledge of how to act, in according with Biblical and even Rabbinic law. Without a fixed text and methods by which to understand principles and derive law, one cannot expect subsequent generations to be similarly sophisticated and intuit how to act.
add a comment |
up vote
6
down vote
up vote
6
down vote
1) Revelation at Har Sinai was necessary to make it mandatory. As Mizrachi explains, the reason Avraham waited, until commanded, to perform circumcision is because there is greater merit in fulfilling a commanded mitzvah than an uncommanded one.
2) See the Rashba's explanation / understanding of this idea, that they were spiritually sophisticated and understood and intuited the fundamentals, applying it to their unique circumstances. This is not the same as keeping all the mitzvot.
3) But even according to the common explanation, Chazal said regarding Avraham "that his two kidneys expressed to him chochma like two teachers". This is intuition and knowledge of how to act, in according with Biblical and even Rabbinic law. Without a fixed text and methods by which to understand principles and derive law, one cannot expect subsequent generations to be similarly sophisticated and intuit how to act.
1) Revelation at Har Sinai was necessary to make it mandatory. As Mizrachi explains, the reason Avraham waited, until commanded, to perform circumcision is because there is greater merit in fulfilling a commanded mitzvah than an uncommanded one.
2) See the Rashba's explanation / understanding of this idea, that they were spiritually sophisticated and understood and intuited the fundamentals, applying it to their unique circumstances. This is not the same as keeping all the mitzvot.
3) But even according to the common explanation, Chazal said regarding Avraham "that his two kidneys expressed to him chochma like two teachers". This is intuition and knowledge of how to act, in according with Biblical and even Rabbinic law. Without a fixed text and methods by which to understand principles and derive law, one cannot expect subsequent generations to be similarly sophisticated and intuit how to act.
answered 2 hours ago
josh waxman
16.7k3068
16.7k3068
add a comment |
add a comment |
Do the agados you refer to address the question? Which are the agados you have in mind that express this theme?
– WAF
4 hours ago
Related: judaism.stackexchange.com/questions/4078/avot-keeping-mitzvot
– Isaac Moses♦
1 hour ago