How long do Beornings live?












11














In The Desolation of Smaug, Beorn mentions to Gandalf that he remembers the time when Sauron ruled over Mirkwood.




[Beorn to Gandalf:] "I remember a time when a great evil ruled these lands. One powerful enough to raise the dead. If that enemy has returned to Middle-Earth, I would have you tell me."




Since Sauron was defeated 3000 years ago when that discussion takes place, that would mean that Beorn and his kin had lifespans measured in millenia, not unlike that of Elves.



Was it ever mentioned what the lifespan of a Beorning is and how long had Beorn himself lived?










share|improve this question




















  • 3




    I don’t believe Tolkien ever mentioned how old Beorn was; that’s a movie invention.
    – Neithan
    yesterday










  • Also, having been alive for as long as someone else dies not in any way imply both lives will continue for the same time after.
    – James McLeod
    yesterday






  • 2




    The tradition that Tolkien was drawing on was that of the "berserker", literally a "bear shirt". Part of a shamanic tradition. Bjorn, of course, is just "Bear" in Norse.
    – James K
    yesterday


















11














In The Desolation of Smaug, Beorn mentions to Gandalf that he remembers the time when Sauron ruled over Mirkwood.




[Beorn to Gandalf:] "I remember a time when a great evil ruled these lands. One powerful enough to raise the dead. If that enemy has returned to Middle-Earth, I would have you tell me."




Since Sauron was defeated 3000 years ago when that discussion takes place, that would mean that Beorn and his kin had lifespans measured in millenia, not unlike that of Elves.



Was it ever mentioned what the lifespan of a Beorning is and how long had Beorn himself lived?










share|improve this question




















  • 3




    I don’t believe Tolkien ever mentioned how old Beorn was; that’s a movie invention.
    – Neithan
    yesterday










  • Also, having been alive for as long as someone else dies not in any way imply both lives will continue for the same time after.
    – James McLeod
    yesterday






  • 2




    The tradition that Tolkien was drawing on was that of the "berserker", literally a "bear shirt". Part of a shamanic tradition. Bjorn, of course, is just "Bear" in Norse.
    – James K
    yesterday
















11












11








11







In The Desolation of Smaug, Beorn mentions to Gandalf that he remembers the time when Sauron ruled over Mirkwood.




[Beorn to Gandalf:] "I remember a time when a great evil ruled these lands. One powerful enough to raise the dead. If that enemy has returned to Middle-Earth, I would have you tell me."




Since Sauron was defeated 3000 years ago when that discussion takes place, that would mean that Beorn and his kin had lifespans measured in millenia, not unlike that of Elves.



Was it ever mentioned what the lifespan of a Beorning is and how long had Beorn himself lived?










share|improve this question















In The Desolation of Smaug, Beorn mentions to Gandalf that he remembers the time when Sauron ruled over Mirkwood.




[Beorn to Gandalf:] "I remember a time when a great evil ruled these lands. One powerful enough to raise the dead. If that enemy has returned to Middle-Earth, I would have you tell me."




Since Sauron was defeated 3000 years ago when that discussion takes place, that would mean that Beorn and his kin had lifespans measured in millenia, not unlike that of Elves.



Was it ever mentioned what the lifespan of a Beorning is and how long had Beorn himself lived?







tolkiens-legendarium






share|improve this question















share|improve this question













share|improve this question




share|improve this question








edited 20 hours ago









Pelinore

3187




3187










asked yesterday









Sava

3,20311151




3,20311151








  • 3




    I don’t believe Tolkien ever mentioned how old Beorn was; that’s a movie invention.
    – Neithan
    yesterday










  • Also, having been alive for as long as someone else dies not in any way imply both lives will continue for the same time after.
    – James McLeod
    yesterday






  • 2




    The tradition that Tolkien was drawing on was that of the "berserker", literally a "bear shirt". Part of a shamanic tradition. Bjorn, of course, is just "Bear" in Norse.
    – James K
    yesterday
















  • 3




    I don’t believe Tolkien ever mentioned how old Beorn was; that’s a movie invention.
    – Neithan
    yesterday










  • Also, having been alive for as long as someone else dies not in any way imply both lives will continue for the same time after.
    – James McLeod
    yesterday






  • 2




    The tradition that Tolkien was drawing on was that of the "berserker", literally a "bear shirt". Part of a shamanic tradition. Bjorn, of course, is just "Bear" in Norse.
    – James K
    yesterday










3




3




I don’t believe Tolkien ever mentioned how old Beorn was; that’s a movie invention.
– Neithan
yesterday




I don’t believe Tolkien ever mentioned how old Beorn was; that’s a movie invention.
– Neithan
yesterday












Also, having been alive for as long as someone else dies not in any way imply both lives will continue for the same time after.
– James McLeod
yesterday




Also, having been alive for as long as someone else dies not in any way imply both lives will continue for the same time after.
– James McLeod
yesterday




2




2




The tradition that Tolkien was drawing on was that of the "berserker", literally a "bear shirt". Part of a shamanic tradition. Bjorn, of course, is just "Bear" in Norse.
– James K
yesterday






The tradition that Tolkien was drawing on was that of the "berserker", literally a "bear shirt". Part of a shamanic tradition. Bjorn, of course, is just "Bear" in Norse.
– James K
yesterday












3 Answers
3






active

oldest

votes


















14














It is unclear, even to Gandalf (at least as of The Hobbit, before the wizard and Beorn became friends) whether Beorn is fundamentally a man who can change into a bear, or a bear that can shapeshift into a man. As Gandalf puts it in "Queer Lodgings":




Some say that he is a bear
descended from the great and ancient bears of
the mountains that lived there before the giants
came. Others say that he is a man descended
from the first men who lived before Smaug or
the other dragons came into this part of the
world, and before the goblins came into the hills
out of the North. I cannot say, though I fancy the
last is the true tale. He is not the sort of person
to ask questions of.



At any rate he is under no enchantment but
his own. He lives in an oak-wood and has a
great wooden house; and as a man he keeps
cattle and horses which are nearly as
marvellous as himself. They work for him and
talk to him. He does not eat them; neither does
he hunt or eat wild animals. He keeps hives and
hives of great fierce bees, and lives most on
cream and honey. As a bear he ranges far and
wide. I once saw him sitting all alone on the top
of the Carrock at night watching the moon
sinking towards the Misty Mountains, and I
heard him growl in the tongue of bears: ‘The
day will come when they will perish and I shall
go back!’ That is why I believe he once came
from the mountains himself.




Although "came from the mountains" is ambiguous, to me this makes it sound as if Beorn himself may have been driven down out of the Misty Mountains when they became inhospitable—not merely that he is descended from men or bears who previously lived up among the heights. The Misty Mountains had been infested with orcs since at least the 2790s, when the War of the Dwarves and Orcs took place. Since Thorin and Company meet Beorn in T. A. 2961, Beorn seems to have been well over 150 at the time of The Hobbit. That is not beyond the limit of human lifespans in Middle Earth, but it does suggest that (beyond his ability to change shapes), Beorn is not a normal human.



On the other hand, we know from The Fellowship of the Ring, "Many Meetings":




Frodo learned that Grimbeorn the Old, son of Beorn, was now the lord of many sturdy men, and to their land between the Mountains and Mirkwood neither orc nor wolf dared to go.




From this it seems likely that Beorn was deceased by the year 3018, when Frodo arrived in Rivendell. Moreover, the fact that his son was given the cognomen "the Old" suggests again that Beorn's descendants also enjoyed longer lifespans than ordinary men.



The fact that Beorn seems probably to have died is also significant in another way. In general, the idea of intelligent, speaking animals (be they bears, wargs, ravens, or other) is actually somewhat difficult to reconcile with Tolkien's cosmogony, in which only those races given the Secret Fire by Eru possess free will and souls. Talking animals—both good and evil—crop up repeatedly in The Hobbit though, so there does need to be some place for them. It is sometimes suggested that, like the eagles (the emissaries of Manwë) all the other animals who talk—from Huan the Hound to the thrush who tells Bard of Smaug's weak spot—are actually Ainur in animal shapes. However, this seems not to be a viable explanation for Beorn, if did eventually die of old age.






share|improve this answer































    4














    No idea...



    Movies



    In the movies, Beorn mentions that he was from the mountains, and he is aware of the darkness in Mirkwood. Obviously at that time no one knew who the Necromancer was, so he couldn't have known it was Sauron.




    [Thorin:] “You know of Azog? How?”



    [Beorn:] “My people were the first to live in the mountains, before the Orcs came down from the north. The Defiler killed most of my family, but some he enslaved.”



    [Bilbo sees the remnants of manacles on Beorn’s wrist.]



    [Beorn:] “Not for work, you understand, but for sport. Caging skin-changers and torturing them seemed to amuse him.”



    [Bilbo:] “There are others like you?”



    [Beorn:] “Once, there were many.”



    [Bilbo:] “And now?”



    [Beorn:] “Now, there is only one.”



    [The dwarves, Bilbo, and Gandalf look on in silence.]



    [Beorn:] “You need to reach the mountain before the last days of autumn?"



    [Gandalf:] “Before Durin’s Day falls, yes.”



    [Beorn:] “You are running out of time.”



    [Gandalf:] “Which is why we must go through Mirkwood.”



    [Beorn:] “A darkness lies upon that forest. Fell things creep beneath those trees. There is an alliance between the Orcs of Moria and the Necromancer in Dol Guldur. I would not venture there except in great need.”




    Books



    Neither does he mention this in the books as well.



    ...but presumably as long-lived as regular, mortal Men



    In Appendix F:




    Most of the Men of the northern regions if the West-lands were descended from the Edain of the First Age, or from their close kin. Their languages were, therefore, related to the Adunaic, and some still preserved a likeness to the Common Speech. Of this kind were the people of the upper vales of the Anduin: the Beornings, [...].




    So having no relations the the Numenoreans they did not have their extended lifespans, and therefore would have lived as long as Men normally would (presumably 80-100 years old).






    share|improve this answer





























      3














      tl;dr



      Beornings are very long-lived for a man. You may expect them to live to 100-ish, but don't expect them to reach the 200-ish Dúnedain/Númenórean range.







      Tolkien's Letter 144



      To Naomi Mitchison
      [Mrs Mitchison had been reading page-proofs of the first two volumes of The Lord of the Rings, and wrote to Tolkien with a number of questions about the book.]




      (...) Beorn is dead; see vol. I p. 241. He appeared in The Hobbit. It was then the year Third Age 2940 (Shire-reckoning 1340). We are now in the years 3018-19 (1418-19). Though a skin-changer and no doubt a bit of a magician, Beorn was a Man. (...)






      I'll elaborate a bit.



      As to the movie - if you'd assume Beorn talked about remembering Sauron (i.e. essentially making him alive as early as Second Age), what he said would make him at least somewhat inhuman (compare to Elros etc.). OTOH, you may consider him to speak about Witch-king (or some other Nazgûl etc.) - Beorn wasn't a scholar, distinguishing between different evil supernatural beings wasn't his forte.



      Alternatively, you can consider this one of the non-canon stuff that was created purely for the movie narrative, and has little in common with the real Tolkien's legendarium.





      As to the books - currently, people can routinely live to 100-110 years if they take care of themselves, if they have good genes, and if they possess a bit of luck. Extreme examples reach about 120 years... and Third Era is long gone chuckle. Since much of Tolkien's works are actually a praise of simple way of living, a man living in harmony with nature would have been expected to also have a lifespan that's longer of what would you consider 'typical' for a man. Still, as @MatCauthon already noted - he's a man, a bit of a shaman-y shapeshifting "magician", with just an extremely long lifespan (ca. 150 years). His children would probably carry those longevity in them, although not in such extreme way (see e.g. Elros and his children).






      share|improve this answer























        Your Answer








        StackExchange.ready(function() {
        var channelOptions = {
        tags: "".split(" "),
        id: "186"
        };
        initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);

        StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function() {
        // Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
        if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled) {
        StackExchange.using("snippets", function() {
        createEditor();
        });
        }
        else {
        createEditor();
        }
        });

        function createEditor() {
        StackExchange.prepareEditor({
        heartbeatType: 'answer',
        autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
        convertImagesToLinks: false,
        noModals: true,
        showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
        reputationToPostImages: null,
        bindNavPrevention: true,
        postfix: "",
        imageUploader: {
        brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
        contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
        allowUrls: true
        },
        noCode: true, onDemand: true,
        discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
        ,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
        });


        }
        });














        draft saved

        draft discarded


















        StackExchange.ready(
        function () {
        StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fscifi.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f202067%2fhow-long-do-beornings-live%23new-answer', 'question_page');
        }
        );

        Post as a guest















        Required, but never shown

























        3 Answers
        3






        active

        oldest

        votes








        3 Answers
        3






        active

        oldest

        votes









        active

        oldest

        votes






        active

        oldest

        votes









        14














        It is unclear, even to Gandalf (at least as of The Hobbit, before the wizard and Beorn became friends) whether Beorn is fundamentally a man who can change into a bear, or a bear that can shapeshift into a man. As Gandalf puts it in "Queer Lodgings":




        Some say that he is a bear
        descended from the great and ancient bears of
        the mountains that lived there before the giants
        came. Others say that he is a man descended
        from the first men who lived before Smaug or
        the other dragons came into this part of the
        world, and before the goblins came into the hills
        out of the North. I cannot say, though I fancy the
        last is the true tale. He is not the sort of person
        to ask questions of.



        At any rate he is under no enchantment but
        his own. He lives in an oak-wood and has a
        great wooden house; and as a man he keeps
        cattle and horses which are nearly as
        marvellous as himself. They work for him and
        talk to him. He does not eat them; neither does
        he hunt or eat wild animals. He keeps hives and
        hives of great fierce bees, and lives most on
        cream and honey. As a bear he ranges far and
        wide. I once saw him sitting all alone on the top
        of the Carrock at night watching the moon
        sinking towards the Misty Mountains, and I
        heard him growl in the tongue of bears: ‘The
        day will come when they will perish and I shall
        go back!’ That is why I believe he once came
        from the mountains himself.




        Although "came from the mountains" is ambiguous, to me this makes it sound as if Beorn himself may have been driven down out of the Misty Mountains when they became inhospitable—not merely that he is descended from men or bears who previously lived up among the heights. The Misty Mountains had been infested with orcs since at least the 2790s, when the War of the Dwarves and Orcs took place. Since Thorin and Company meet Beorn in T. A. 2961, Beorn seems to have been well over 150 at the time of The Hobbit. That is not beyond the limit of human lifespans in Middle Earth, but it does suggest that (beyond his ability to change shapes), Beorn is not a normal human.



        On the other hand, we know from The Fellowship of the Ring, "Many Meetings":




        Frodo learned that Grimbeorn the Old, son of Beorn, was now the lord of many sturdy men, and to their land between the Mountains and Mirkwood neither orc nor wolf dared to go.




        From this it seems likely that Beorn was deceased by the year 3018, when Frodo arrived in Rivendell. Moreover, the fact that his son was given the cognomen "the Old" suggests again that Beorn's descendants also enjoyed longer lifespans than ordinary men.



        The fact that Beorn seems probably to have died is also significant in another way. In general, the idea of intelligent, speaking animals (be they bears, wargs, ravens, or other) is actually somewhat difficult to reconcile with Tolkien's cosmogony, in which only those races given the Secret Fire by Eru possess free will and souls. Talking animals—both good and evil—crop up repeatedly in The Hobbit though, so there does need to be some place for them. It is sometimes suggested that, like the eagles (the emissaries of Manwë) all the other animals who talk—from Huan the Hound to the thrush who tells Bard of Smaug's weak spot—are actually Ainur in animal shapes. However, this seems not to be a viable explanation for Beorn, if did eventually die of old age.






        share|improve this answer




























          14














          It is unclear, even to Gandalf (at least as of The Hobbit, before the wizard and Beorn became friends) whether Beorn is fundamentally a man who can change into a bear, or a bear that can shapeshift into a man. As Gandalf puts it in "Queer Lodgings":




          Some say that he is a bear
          descended from the great and ancient bears of
          the mountains that lived there before the giants
          came. Others say that he is a man descended
          from the first men who lived before Smaug or
          the other dragons came into this part of the
          world, and before the goblins came into the hills
          out of the North. I cannot say, though I fancy the
          last is the true tale. He is not the sort of person
          to ask questions of.



          At any rate he is under no enchantment but
          his own. He lives in an oak-wood and has a
          great wooden house; and as a man he keeps
          cattle and horses which are nearly as
          marvellous as himself. They work for him and
          talk to him. He does not eat them; neither does
          he hunt or eat wild animals. He keeps hives and
          hives of great fierce bees, and lives most on
          cream and honey. As a bear he ranges far and
          wide. I once saw him sitting all alone on the top
          of the Carrock at night watching the moon
          sinking towards the Misty Mountains, and I
          heard him growl in the tongue of bears: ‘The
          day will come when they will perish and I shall
          go back!’ That is why I believe he once came
          from the mountains himself.




          Although "came from the mountains" is ambiguous, to me this makes it sound as if Beorn himself may have been driven down out of the Misty Mountains when they became inhospitable—not merely that he is descended from men or bears who previously lived up among the heights. The Misty Mountains had been infested with orcs since at least the 2790s, when the War of the Dwarves and Orcs took place. Since Thorin and Company meet Beorn in T. A. 2961, Beorn seems to have been well over 150 at the time of The Hobbit. That is not beyond the limit of human lifespans in Middle Earth, but it does suggest that (beyond his ability to change shapes), Beorn is not a normal human.



          On the other hand, we know from The Fellowship of the Ring, "Many Meetings":




          Frodo learned that Grimbeorn the Old, son of Beorn, was now the lord of many sturdy men, and to their land between the Mountains and Mirkwood neither orc nor wolf dared to go.




          From this it seems likely that Beorn was deceased by the year 3018, when Frodo arrived in Rivendell. Moreover, the fact that his son was given the cognomen "the Old" suggests again that Beorn's descendants also enjoyed longer lifespans than ordinary men.



          The fact that Beorn seems probably to have died is also significant in another way. In general, the idea of intelligent, speaking animals (be they bears, wargs, ravens, or other) is actually somewhat difficult to reconcile with Tolkien's cosmogony, in which only those races given the Secret Fire by Eru possess free will and souls. Talking animals—both good and evil—crop up repeatedly in The Hobbit though, so there does need to be some place for them. It is sometimes suggested that, like the eagles (the emissaries of Manwë) all the other animals who talk—from Huan the Hound to the thrush who tells Bard of Smaug's weak spot—are actually Ainur in animal shapes. However, this seems not to be a viable explanation for Beorn, if did eventually die of old age.






          share|improve this answer


























            14












            14








            14






            It is unclear, even to Gandalf (at least as of The Hobbit, before the wizard and Beorn became friends) whether Beorn is fundamentally a man who can change into a bear, or a bear that can shapeshift into a man. As Gandalf puts it in "Queer Lodgings":




            Some say that he is a bear
            descended from the great and ancient bears of
            the mountains that lived there before the giants
            came. Others say that he is a man descended
            from the first men who lived before Smaug or
            the other dragons came into this part of the
            world, and before the goblins came into the hills
            out of the North. I cannot say, though I fancy the
            last is the true tale. He is not the sort of person
            to ask questions of.



            At any rate he is under no enchantment but
            his own. He lives in an oak-wood and has a
            great wooden house; and as a man he keeps
            cattle and horses which are nearly as
            marvellous as himself. They work for him and
            talk to him. He does not eat them; neither does
            he hunt or eat wild animals. He keeps hives and
            hives of great fierce bees, and lives most on
            cream and honey. As a bear he ranges far and
            wide. I once saw him sitting all alone on the top
            of the Carrock at night watching the moon
            sinking towards the Misty Mountains, and I
            heard him growl in the tongue of bears: ‘The
            day will come when they will perish and I shall
            go back!’ That is why I believe he once came
            from the mountains himself.




            Although "came from the mountains" is ambiguous, to me this makes it sound as if Beorn himself may have been driven down out of the Misty Mountains when they became inhospitable—not merely that he is descended from men or bears who previously lived up among the heights. The Misty Mountains had been infested with orcs since at least the 2790s, when the War of the Dwarves and Orcs took place. Since Thorin and Company meet Beorn in T. A. 2961, Beorn seems to have been well over 150 at the time of The Hobbit. That is not beyond the limit of human lifespans in Middle Earth, but it does suggest that (beyond his ability to change shapes), Beorn is not a normal human.



            On the other hand, we know from The Fellowship of the Ring, "Many Meetings":




            Frodo learned that Grimbeorn the Old, son of Beorn, was now the lord of many sturdy men, and to their land between the Mountains and Mirkwood neither orc nor wolf dared to go.




            From this it seems likely that Beorn was deceased by the year 3018, when Frodo arrived in Rivendell. Moreover, the fact that his son was given the cognomen "the Old" suggests again that Beorn's descendants also enjoyed longer lifespans than ordinary men.



            The fact that Beorn seems probably to have died is also significant in another way. In general, the idea of intelligent, speaking animals (be they bears, wargs, ravens, or other) is actually somewhat difficult to reconcile with Tolkien's cosmogony, in which only those races given the Secret Fire by Eru possess free will and souls. Talking animals—both good and evil—crop up repeatedly in The Hobbit though, so there does need to be some place for them. It is sometimes suggested that, like the eagles (the emissaries of Manwë) all the other animals who talk—from Huan the Hound to the thrush who tells Bard of Smaug's weak spot—are actually Ainur in animal shapes. However, this seems not to be a viable explanation for Beorn, if did eventually die of old age.






            share|improve this answer














            It is unclear, even to Gandalf (at least as of The Hobbit, before the wizard and Beorn became friends) whether Beorn is fundamentally a man who can change into a bear, or a bear that can shapeshift into a man. As Gandalf puts it in "Queer Lodgings":




            Some say that he is a bear
            descended from the great and ancient bears of
            the mountains that lived there before the giants
            came. Others say that he is a man descended
            from the first men who lived before Smaug or
            the other dragons came into this part of the
            world, and before the goblins came into the hills
            out of the North. I cannot say, though I fancy the
            last is the true tale. He is not the sort of person
            to ask questions of.



            At any rate he is under no enchantment but
            his own. He lives in an oak-wood and has a
            great wooden house; and as a man he keeps
            cattle and horses which are nearly as
            marvellous as himself. They work for him and
            talk to him. He does not eat them; neither does
            he hunt or eat wild animals. He keeps hives and
            hives of great fierce bees, and lives most on
            cream and honey. As a bear he ranges far and
            wide. I once saw him sitting all alone on the top
            of the Carrock at night watching the moon
            sinking towards the Misty Mountains, and I
            heard him growl in the tongue of bears: ‘The
            day will come when they will perish and I shall
            go back!’ That is why I believe he once came
            from the mountains himself.




            Although "came from the mountains" is ambiguous, to me this makes it sound as if Beorn himself may have been driven down out of the Misty Mountains when they became inhospitable—not merely that he is descended from men or bears who previously lived up among the heights. The Misty Mountains had been infested with orcs since at least the 2790s, when the War of the Dwarves and Orcs took place. Since Thorin and Company meet Beorn in T. A. 2961, Beorn seems to have been well over 150 at the time of The Hobbit. That is not beyond the limit of human lifespans in Middle Earth, but it does suggest that (beyond his ability to change shapes), Beorn is not a normal human.



            On the other hand, we know from The Fellowship of the Ring, "Many Meetings":




            Frodo learned that Grimbeorn the Old, son of Beorn, was now the lord of many sturdy men, and to their land between the Mountains and Mirkwood neither orc nor wolf dared to go.




            From this it seems likely that Beorn was deceased by the year 3018, when Frodo arrived in Rivendell. Moreover, the fact that his son was given the cognomen "the Old" suggests again that Beorn's descendants also enjoyed longer lifespans than ordinary men.



            The fact that Beorn seems probably to have died is also significant in another way. In general, the idea of intelligent, speaking animals (be they bears, wargs, ravens, or other) is actually somewhat difficult to reconcile with Tolkien's cosmogony, in which only those races given the Secret Fire by Eru possess free will and souls. Talking animals—both good and evil—crop up repeatedly in The Hobbit though, so there does need to be some place for them. It is sometimes suggested that, like the eagles (the emissaries of Manwë) all the other animals who talk—from Huan the Hound to the thrush who tells Bard of Smaug's weak spot—are actually Ainur in animal shapes. However, this seems not to be a viable explanation for Beorn, if did eventually die of old age.







            share|improve this answer














            share|improve this answer



            share|improve this answer








            edited yesterday

























            answered yesterday









            Buzz

            33.1k6114182




            33.1k6114182

























                4














                No idea...



                Movies



                In the movies, Beorn mentions that he was from the mountains, and he is aware of the darkness in Mirkwood. Obviously at that time no one knew who the Necromancer was, so he couldn't have known it was Sauron.




                [Thorin:] “You know of Azog? How?”



                [Beorn:] “My people were the first to live in the mountains, before the Orcs came down from the north. The Defiler killed most of my family, but some he enslaved.”



                [Bilbo sees the remnants of manacles on Beorn’s wrist.]



                [Beorn:] “Not for work, you understand, but for sport. Caging skin-changers and torturing them seemed to amuse him.”



                [Bilbo:] “There are others like you?”



                [Beorn:] “Once, there were many.”



                [Bilbo:] “And now?”



                [Beorn:] “Now, there is only one.”



                [The dwarves, Bilbo, and Gandalf look on in silence.]



                [Beorn:] “You need to reach the mountain before the last days of autumn?"



                [Gandalf:] “Before Durin’s Day falls, yes.”



                [Beorn:] “You are running out of time.”



                [Gandalf:] “Which is why we must go through Mirkwood.”



                [Beorn:] “A darkness lies upon that forest. Fell things creep beneath those trees. There is an alliance between the Orcs of Moria and the Necromancer in Dol Guldur. I would not venture there except in great need.”




                Books



                Neither does he mention this in the books as well.



                ...but presumably as long-lived as regular, mortal Men



                In Appendix F:




                Most of the Men of the northern regions if the West-lands were descended from the Edain of the First Age, or from their close kin. Their languages were, therefore, related to the Adunaic, and some still preserved a likeness to the Common Speech. Of this kind were the people of the upper vales of the Anduin: the Beornings, [...].




                So having no relations the the Numenoreans they did not have their extended lifespans, and therefore would have lived as long as Men normally would (presumably 80-100 years old).






                share|improve this answer


























                  4














                  No idea...



                  Movies



                  In the movies, Beorn mentions that he was from the mountains, and he is aware of the darkness in Mirkwood. Obviously at that time no one knew who the Necromancer was, so he couldn't have known it was Sauron.




                  [Thorin:] “You know of Azog? How?”



                  [Beorn:] “My people were the first to live in the mountains, before the Orcs came down from the north. The Defiler killed most of my family, but some he enslaved.”



                  [Bilbo sees the remnants of manacles on Beorn’s wrist.]



                  [Beorn:] “Not for work, you understand, but for sport. Caging skin-changers and torturing them seemed to amuse him.”



                  [Bilbo:] “There are others like you?”



                  [Beorn:] “Once, there were many.”



                  [Bilbo:] “And now?”



                  [Beorn:] “Now, there is only one.”



                  [The dwarves, Bilbo, and Gandalf look on in silence.]



                  [Beorn:] “You need to reach the mountain before the last days of autumn?"



                  [Gandalf:] “Before Durin’s Day falls, yes.”



                  [Beorn:] “You are running out of time.”



                  [Gandalf:] “Which is why we must go through Mirkwood.”



                  [Beorn:] “A darkness lies upon that forest. Fell things creep beneath those trees. There is an alliance between the Orcs of Moria and the Necromancer in Dol Guldur. I would not venture there except in great need.”




                  Books



                  Neither does he mention this in the books as well.



                  ...but presumably as long-lived as regular, mortal Men



                  In Appendix F:




                  Most of the Men of the northern regions if the West-lands were descended from the Edain of the First Age, or from their close kin. Their languages were, therefore, related to the Adunaic, and some still preserved a likeness to the Common Speech. Of this kind were the people of the upper vales of the Anduin: the Beornings, [...].




                  So having no relations the the Numenoreans they did not have their extended lifespans, and therefore would have lived as long as Men normally would (presumably 80-100 years old).






                  share|improve this answer
























                    4












                    4








                    4






                    No idea...



                    Movies



                    In the movies, Beorn mentions that he was from the mountains, and he is aware of the darkness in Mirkwood. Obviously at that time no one knew who the Necromancer was, so he couldn't have known it was Sauron.




                    [Thorin:] “You know of Azog? How?”



                    [Beorn:] “My people were the first to live in the mountains, before the Orcs came down from the north. The Defiler killed most of my family, but some he enslaved.”



                    [Bilbo sees the remnants of manacles on Beorn’s wrist.]



                    [Beorn:] “Not for work, you understand, but for sport. Caging skin-changers and torturing them seemed to amuse him.”



                    [Bilbo:] “There are others like you?”



                    [Beorn:] “Once, there were many.”



                    [Bilbo:] “And now?”



                    [Beorn:] “Now, there is only one.”



                    [The dwarves, Bilbo, and Gandalf look on in silence.]



                    [Beorn:] “You need to reach the mountain before the last days of autumn?"



                    [Gandalf:] “Before Durin’s Day falls, yes.”



                    [Beorn:] “You are running out of time.”



                    [Gandalf:] “Which is why we must go through Mirkwood.”



                    [Beorn:] “A darkness lies upon that forest. Fell things creep beneath those trees. There is an alliance between the Orcs of Moria and the Necromancer in Dol Guldur. I would not venture there except in great need.”




                    Books



                    Neither does he mention this in the books as well.



                    ...but presumably as long-lived as regular, mortal Men



                    In Appendix F:




                    Most of the Men of the northern regions if the West-lands were descended from the Edain of the First Age, or from their close kin. Their languages were, therefore, related to the Adunaic, and some still preserved a likeness to the Common Speech. Of this kind were the people of the upper vales of the Anduin: the Beornings, [...].




                    So having no relations the the Numenoreans they did not have their extended lifespans, and therefore would have lived as long as Men normally would (presumably 80-100 years old).






                    share|improve this answer












                    No idea...



                    Movies



                    In the movies, Beorn mentions that he was from the mountains, and he is aware of the darkness in Mirkwood. Obviously at that time no one knew who the Necromancer was, so he couldn't have known it was Sauron.




                    [Thorin:] “You know of Azog? How?”



                    [Beorn:] “My people were the first to live in the mountains, before the Orcs came down from the north. The Defiler killed most of my family, but some he enslaved.”



                    [Bilbo sees the remnants of manacles on Beorn’s wrist.]



                    [Beorn:] “Not for work, you understand, but for sport. Caging skin-changers and torturing them seemed to amuse him.”



                    [Bilbo:] “There are others like you?”



                    [Beorn:] “Once, there were many.”



                    [Bilbo:] “And now?”



                    [Beorn:] “Now, there is only one.”



                    [The dwarves, Bilbo, and Gandalf look on in silence.]



                    [Beorn:] “You need to reach the mountain before the last days of autumn?"



                    [Gandalf:] “Before Durin’s Day falls, yes.”



                    [Beorn:] “You are running out of time.”



                    [Gandalf:] “Which is why we must go through Mirkwood.”



                    [Beorn:] “A darkness lies upon that forest. Fell things creep beneath those trees. There is an alliance between the Orcs of Moria and the Necromancer in Dol Guldur. I would not venture there except in great need.”




                    Books



                    Neither does he mention this in the books as well.



                    ...but presumably as long-lived as regular, mortal Men



                    In Appendix F:




                    Most of the Men of the northern regions if the West-lands were descended from the Edain of the First Age, or from their close kin. Their languages were, therefore, related to the Adunaic, and some still preserved a likeness to the Common Speech. Of this kind were the people of the upper vales of the Anduin: the Beornings, [...].




                    So having no relations the the Numenoreans they did not have their extended lifespans, and therefore would have lived as long as Men normally would (presumably 80-100 years old).







                    share|improve this answer












                    share|improve this answer



                    share|improve this answer










                    answered yesterday









                    Mat Cauthon

                    16.3k480132




                    16.3k480132























                        3














                        tl;dr



                        Beornings are very long-lived for a man. You may expect them to live to 100-ish, but don't expect them to reach the 200-ish Dúnedain/Númenórean range.







                        Tolkien's Letter 144



                        To Naomi Mitchison
                        [Mrs Mitchison had been reading page-proofs of the first two volumes of The Lord of the Rings, and wrote to Tolkien with a number of questions about the book.]




                        (...) Beorn is dead; see vol. I p. 241. He appeared in The Hobbit. It was then the year Third Age 2940 (Shire-reckoning 1340). We are now in the years 3018-19 (1418-19). Though a skin-changer and no doubt a bit of a magician, Beorn was a Man. (...)






                        I'll elaborate a bit.



                        As to the movie - if you'd assume Beorn talked about remembering Sauron (i.e. essentially making him alive as early as Second Age), what he said would make him at least somewhat inhuman (compare to Elros etc.). OTOH, you may consider him to speak about Witch-king (or some other Nazgûl etc.) - Beorn wasn't a scholar, distinguishing between different evil supernatural beings wasn't his forte.



                        Alternatively, you can consider this one of the non-canon stuff that was created purely for the movie narrative, and has little in common with the real Tolkien's legendarium.





                        As to the books - currently, people can routinely live to 100-110 years if they take care of themselves, if they have good genes, and if they possess a bit of luck. Extreme examples reach about 120 years... and Third Era is long gone chuckle. Since much of Tolkien's works are actually a praise of simple way of living, a man living in harmony with nature would have been expected to also have a lifespan that's longer of what would you consider 'typical' for a man. Still, as @MatCauthon already noted - he's a man, a bit of a shaman-y shapeshifting "magician", with just an extremely long lifespan (ca. 150 years). His children would probably carry those longevity in them, although not in such extreme way (see e.g. Elros and his children).






                        share|improve this answer




























                          3














                          tl;dr



                          Beornings are very long-lived for a man. You may expect them to live to 100-ish, but don't expect them to reach the 200-ish Dúnedain/Númenórean range.







                          Tolkien's Letter 144



                          To Naomi Mitchison
                          [Mrs Mitchison had been reading page-proofs of the first two volumes of The Lord of the Rings, and wrote to Tolkien with a number of questions about the book.]




                          (...) Beorn is dead; see vol. I p. 241. He appeared in The Hobbit. It was then the year Third Age 2940 (Shire-reckoning 1340). We are now in the years 3018-19 (1418-19). Though a skin-changer and no doubt a bit of a magician, Beorn was a Man. (...)






                          I'll elaborate a bit.



                          As to the movie - if you'd assume Beorn talked about remembering Sauron (i.e. essentially making him alive as early as Second Age), what he said would make him at least somewhat inhuman (compare to Elros etc.). OTOH, you may consider him to speak about Witch-king (or some other Nazgûl etc.) - Beorn wasn't a scholar, distinguishing between different evil supernatural beings wasn't his forte.



                          Alternatively, you can consider this one of the non-canon stuff that was created purely for the movie narrative, and has little in common with the real Tolkien's legendarium.





                          As to the books - currently, people can routinely live to 100-110 years if they take care of themselves, if they have good genes, and if they possess a bit of luck. Extreme examples reach about 120 years... and Third Era is long gone chuckle. Since much of Tolkien's works are actually a praise of simple way of living, a man living in harmony with nature would have been expected to also have a lifespan that's longer of what would you consider 'typical' for a man. Still, as @MatCauthon already noted - he's a man, a bit of a shaman-y shapeshifting "magician", with just an extremely long lifespan (ca. 150 years). His children would probably carry those longevity in them, although not in such extreme way (see e.g. Elros and his children).






                          share|improve this answer


























                            3












                            3








                            3






                            tl;dr



                            Beornings are very long-lived for a man. You may expect them to live to 100-ish, but don't expect them to reach the 200-ish Dúnedain/Númenórean range.







                            Tolkien's Letter 144



                            To Naomi Mitchison
                            [Mrs Mitchison had been reading page-proofs of the first two volumes of The Lord of the Rings, and wrote to Tolkien with a number of questions about the book.]




                            (...) Beorn is dead; see vol. I p. 241. He appeared in The Hobbit. It was then the year Third Age 2940 (Shire-reckoning 1340). We are now in the years 3018-19 (1418-19). Though a skin-changer and no doubt a bit of a magician, Beorn was a Man. (...)






                            I'll elaborate a bit.



                            As to the movie - if you'd assume Beorn talked about remembering Sauron (i.e. essentially making him alive as early as Second Age), what he said would make him at least somewhat inhuman (compare to Elros etc.). OTOH, you may consider him to speak about Witch-king (or some other Nazgûl etc.) - Beorn wasn't a scholar, distinguishing between different evil supernatural beings wasn't his forte.



                            Alternatively, you can consider this one of the non-canon stuff that was created purely for the movie narrative, and has little in common with the real Tolkien's legendarium.





                            As to the books - currently, people can routinely live to 100-110 years if they take care of themselves, if they have good genes, and if they possess a bit of luck. Extreme examples reach about 120 years... and Third Era is long gone chuckle. Since much of Tolkien's works are actually a praise of simple way of living, a man living in harmony with nature would have been expected to also have a lifespan that's longer of what would you consider 'typical' for a man. Still, as @MatCauthon already noted - he's a man, a bit of a shaman-y shapeshifting "magician", with just an extremely long lifespan (ca. 150 years). His children would probably carry those longevity in them, although not in such extreme way (see e.g. Elros and his children).






                            share|improve this answer














                            tl;dr



                            Beornings are very long-lived for a man. You may expect them to live to 100-ish, but don't expect them to reach the 200-ish Dúnedain/Númenórean range.







                            Tolkien's Letter 144



                            To Naomi Mitchison
                            [Mrs Mitchison had been reading page-proofs of the first two volumes of The Lord of the Rings, and wrote to Tolkien with a number of questions about the book.]




                            (...) Beorn is dead; see vol. I p. 241. He appeared in The Hobbit. It was then the year Third Age 2940 (Shire-reckoning 1340). We are now in the years 3018-19 (1418-19). Though a skin-changer and no doubt a bit of a magician, Beorn was a Man. (...)






                            I'll elaborate a bit.



                            As to the movie - if you'd assume Beorn talked about remembering Sauron (i.e. essentially making him alive as early as Second Age), what he said would make him at least somewhat inhuman (compare to Elros etc.). OTOH, you may consider him to speak about Witch-king (or some other Nazgûl etc.) - Beorn wasn't a scholar, distinguishing between different evil supernatural beings wasn't his forte.



                            Alternatively, you can consider this one of the non-canon stuff that was created purely for the movie narrative, and has little in common with the real Tolkien's legendarium.





                            As to the books - currently, people can routinely live to 100-110 years if they take care of themselves, if they have good genes, and if they possess a bit of luck. Extreme examples reach about 120 years... and Third Era is long gone chuckle. Since much of Tolkien's works are actually a praise of simple way of living, a man living in harmony with nature would have been expected to also have a lifespan that's longer of what would you consider 'typical' for a man. Still, as @MatCauthon already noted - he's a man, a bit of a shaman-y shapeshifting "magician", with just an extremely long lifespan (ca. 150 years). His children would probably carry those longevity in them, although not in such extreme way (see e.g. Elros and his children).







                            share|improve this answer














                            share|improve this answer



                            share|improve this answer








                            edited 9 hours ago

























                            answered 14 hours ago









                            vaxquis

                            1,430914




                            1,430914






























                                draft saved

                                draft discarded




















































                                Thanks for contributing an answer to Science Fiction & Fantasy Stack Exchange!


                                • Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!

                                But avoid



                                • Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.

                                • Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.


                                To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.





                                Some of your past answers have not been well-received, and you're in danger of being blocked from answering.


                                Please pay close attention to the following guidance:


                                • Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!

                                But avoid



                                • Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.

                                • Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.


                                To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.




                                draft saved


                                draft discarded














                                StackExchange.ready(
                                function () {
                                StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fscifi.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f202067%2fhow-long-do-beornings-live%23new-answer', 'question_page');
                                }
                                );

                                Post as a guest















                                Required, but never shown





















































                                Required, but never shown














                                Required, but never shown












                                Required, but never shown







                                Required, but never shown

































                                Required, but never shown














                                Required, but never shown












                                Required, but never shown







                                Required, but never shown







                                Popular posts from this blog

                                What visual should I use to simply compare current year value vs last year in Power BI desktop

                                Alexandru Averescu

                                Trompette piccolo