A handful of gems
up vote
3
down vote
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So I'm facing an issue after many years of writing, and several unsuccessful novels. In my own estimation, all my books contain a "handful of gems" --wonderful scenes that really come to life. But they aren't enough to make the books as a whole work, and neither are they "extractable," meaning they don't function the same outside of their original context. So basically, I have a few wonderful scenes scattered across several books no one will ever read.
So where do I go from here? I'd just chalk it up to learning, but after 20 years of writing, I don't know that this is a pattern I know how to move forward from.
editing scene
add a comment |
up vote
3
down vote
favorite
So I'm facing an issue after many years of writing, and several unsuccessful novels. In my own estimation, all my books contain a "handful of gems" --wonderful scenes that really come to life. But they aren't enough to make the books as a whole work, and neither are they "extractable," meaning they don't function the same outside of their original context. So basically, I have a few wonderful scenes scattered across several books no one will ever read.
So where do I go from here? I'd just chalk it up to learning, but after 20 years of writing, I don't know that this is a pattern I know how to move forward from.
editing scene
I wouldn't want to say anything out of context but here I go : Perhaps you are really good at building those scenes, but the "building time" isn't entertaining enough ? Meaning, you could work on the swiftness at which you build them. I know books who solely rely on building one single gem, and the readers follow them because they know this scene will be up to their taste.
– Sasugasm
2 hours ago
add a comment |
up vote
3
down vote
favorite
up vote
3
down vote
favorite
So I'm facing an issue after many years of writing, and several unsuccessful novels. In my own estimation, all my books contain a "handful of gems" --wonderful scenes that really come to life. But they aren't enough to make the books as a whole work, and neither are they "extractable," meaning they don't function the same outside of their original context. So basically, I have a few wonderful scenes scattered across several books no one will ever read.
So where do I go from here? I'd just chalk it up to learning, but after 20 years of writing, I don't know that this is a pattern I know how to move forward from.
editing scene
So I'm facing an issue after many years of writing, and several unsuccessful novels. In my own estimation, all my books contain a "handful of gems" --wonderful scenes that really come to life. But they aren't enough to make the books as a whole work, and neither are they "extractable," meaning they don't function the same outside of their original context. So basically, I have a few wonderful scenes scattered across several books no one will ever read.
So where do I go from here? I'd just chalk it up to learning, but after 20 years of writing, I don't know that this is a pattern I know how to move forward from.
editing scene
editing scene
asked 3 hours ago
Chris Sunami
26.8k33199
26.8k33199
I wouldn't want to say anything out of context but here I go : Perhaps you are really good at building those scenes, but the "building time" isn't entertaining enough ? Meaning, you could work on the swiftness at which you build them. I know books who solely rely on building one single gem, and the readers follow them because they know this scene will be up to their taste.
– Sasugasm
2 hours ago
add a comment |
I wouldn't want to say anything out of context but here I go : Perhaps you are really good at building those scenes, but the "building time" isn't entertaining enough ? Meaning, you could work on the swiftness at which you build them. I know books who solely rely on building one single gem, and the readers follow them because they know this scene will be up to their taste.
– Sasugasm
2 hours ago
I wouldn't want to say anything out of context but here I go : Perhaps you are really good at building those scenes, but the "building time" isn't entertaining enough ? Meaning, you could work on the swiftness at which you build them. I know books who solely rely on building one single gem, and the readers follow them because they know this scene will be up to their taste.
– Sasugasm
2 hours ago
I wouldn't want to say anything out of context but here I go : Perhaps you are really good at building those scenes, but the "building time" isn't entertaining enough ? Meaning, you could work on the swiftness at which you build them. I know books who solely rely on building one single gem, and the readers follow them because they know this scene will be up to their taste.
– Sasugasm
2 hours ago
add a comment |
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
up vote
5
down vote
It seems like if you're good at constructing isolated, very good scenes, the field you need to focus on is short stories, where one can quickly construct contexts that allow gems to shine, and take up their rightful place as the focal point (without being shrouded by a novel). Perhaps a good end goal would be to construct an anthology.
Yes, you'll have to discard your current gems and make new ones to fit into your new short stories, but if you can write a bunch of gems in the past, you no doubt have the capability to make new ones.
That's my advice, though I can't say if it'll be useful.
add a comment |
up vote
2
down vote
For starters, even the finest novels are not end to end deathless prose, all books have high points and highlights, so don't beat yourself up if not every page is crammed with shimmering gems.
It is probably time for you to sit down with these gems and with some comparable non-shimmering scenes from your novels and give both some rigorous analysis, the same as you might do is you were critiquing anyone else's work. In fact, it might be that spending some time critiquing other writers work is what you need to do to exercise your critiquing muscles before you set about addressing your own, that way you can practice objectivity.
Consider joining a writing group of some sort if you are not already in one, that will give you access to people willing to read some of your work and you in turn get practice at reading theirs. Even if you don't do that, there is noting to stop you picking up any published novel and critiquing either the entire book and its structure, or cherry picking scenes to focus on.
And it is worth remembering that whole book structure, it may be that what contributes to the perfection of your handful of gems is the mounting your have set them in, the supporting structure. It is possible for a scene to shine brighter because of the way the supporting book directs the light onto them.
So I recommend taking time, practice critiquing but remember to look at your scenes in context rather than isolation. Once you have some working theories as to where the gems work and the non gems don't you will be well placed to start polishing the rest. But don't be afraid to be brutal with the scenes that aren't so good, it might be that multiple scene-ectomies are required. Sometimes you can take out several flabby scenes and replace them with fewer tighter one.
add a comment |
up vote
1
down vote
I was wondering what you meant by Struggling with the number of themes in my work
Because I think of themes as coming up organically and not being something you explicitly write.
But now I wonder if you simply have too many ideas. No such thing, right? Unless you get bored and move on to the next idea before the first one has reached fruition.
If your scenes are truly that good, then you know you can write. The problem is sustaining it over the course of a novel. I know from writing my own novel that sometimes you get to a point where it is tedious and you feel like you're slogging through with no end. I'm at a place myself where I've been stuck for a couple of months figuring out family structures, names, and ages of a group of people. This was easy and fun when they were contemporary and done from scratch. It's been hellish doing it with this different group for a historical time period using an existing work and adding to it. I have to make myself push through it and finish it already.
I could just keep writing and finish the book. I have it all in my head. But without the part I'm struggling with, it won't be grounded. It will always be off and I might not even know why.
If you've written several books in 20 years (and wow, most people never complete one book so yay you!) that have a couple of good scenes and the rest is meh, it makes me wonder how much of the boring stuff you've waded through and how many rewrites you've done. Maybe I'm off here. Maybe the issue is structural. That you can write good scenes but have trouble tethering them.
Either way, it's time for outside help. A writing workshop (the kind where you spend 2 weeks on a farm or something), a novel writing class (full semester), a professional editor who's not going to pull punches. Somebody who can figure out exactly what's wrong and how to fix it.
Maybe one or more of your existing books can be pulled apart and re-written. Or maybe you need to start over with new skills. I don't know.
If you've been doing this for 20 years without success, I think it's beyond what some good introspection and online advice can do. The only analogy I can think of is therapy. If you were struggling with a deep-seated personality issue based on past events, introspection and the occasional support group sometimes helps but can only take you so far. It's time to hit the couch and find out what makes you tick. Only in this case, the therapy is for your writing, not your mind.
add a comment |
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3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
5
down vote
It seems like if you're good at constructing isolated, very good scenes, the field you need to focus on is short stories, where one can quickly construct contexts that allow gems to shine, and take up their rightful place as the focal point (without being shrouded by a novel). Perhaps a good end goal would be to construct an anthology.
Yes, you'll have to discard your current gems and make new ones to fit into your new short stories, but if you can write a bunch of gems in the past, you no doubt have the capability to make new ones.
That's my advice, though I can't say if it'll be useful.
add a comment |
up vote
5
down vote
It seems like if you're good at constructing isolated, very good scenes, the field you need to focus on is short stories, where one can quickly construct contexts that allow gems to shine, and take up their rightful place as the focal point (without being shrouded by a novel). Perhaps a good end goal would be to construct an anthology.
Yes, you'll have to discard your current gems and make new ones to fit into your new short stories, but if you can write a bunch of gems in the past, you no doubt have the capability to make new ones.
That's my advice, though I can't say if it'll be useful.
add a comment |
up vote
5
down vote
up vote
5
down vote
It seems like if you're good at constructing isolated, very good scenes, the field you need to focus on is short stories, where one can quickly construct contexts that allow gems to shine, and take up their rightful place as the focal point (without being shrouded by a novel). Perhaps a good end goal would be to construct an anthology.
Yes, you'll have to discard your current gems and make new ones to fit into your new short stories, but if you can write a bunch of gems in the past, you no doubt have the capability to make new ones.
That's my advice, though I can't say if it'll be useful.
It seems like if you're good at constructing isolated, very good scenes, the field you need to focus on is short stories, where one can quickly construct contexts that allow gems to shine, and take up their rightful place as the focal point (without being shrouded by a novel). Perhaps a good end goal would be to construct an anthology.
Yes, you'll have to discard your current gems and make new ones to fit into your new short stories, but if you can write a bunch of gems in the past, you no doubt have the capability to make new ones.
That's my advice, though I can't say if it'll be useful.
answered 3 hours ago
Matthew Dave
5,775738
5,775738
add a comment |
add a comment |
up vote
2
down vote
For starters, even the finest novels are not end to end deathless prose, all books have high points and highlights, so don't beat yourself up if not every page is crammed with shimmering gems.
It is probably time for you to sit down with these gems and with some comparable non-shimmering scenes from your novels and give both some rigorous analysis, the same as you might do is you were critiquing anyone else's work. In fact, it might be that spending some time critiquing other writers work is what you need to do to exercise your critiquing muscles before you set about addressing your own, that way you can practice objectivity.
Consider joining a writing group of some sort if you are not already in one, that will give you access to people willing to read some of your work and you in turn get practice at reading theirs. Even if you don't do that, there is noting to stop you picking up any published novel and critiquing either the entire book and its structure, or cherry picking scenes to focus on.
And it is worth remembering that whole book structure, it may be that what contributes to the perfection of your handful of gems is the mounting your have set them in, the supporting structure. It is possible for a scene to shine brighter because of the way the supporting book directs the light onto them.
So I recommend taking time, practice critiquing but remember to look at your scenes in context rather than isolation. Once you have some working theories as to where the gems work and the non gems don't you will be well placed to start polishing the rest. But don't be afraid to be brutal with the scenes that aren't so good, it might be that multiple scene-ectomies are required. Sometimes you can take out several flabby scenes and replace them with fewer tighter one.
add a comment |
up vote
2
down vote
For starters, even the finest novels are not end to end deathless prose, all books have high points and highlights, so don't beat yourself up if not every page is crammed with shimmering gems.
It is probably time for you to sit down with these gems and with some comparable non-shimmering scenes from your novels and give both some rigorous analysis, the same as you might do is you were critiquing anyone else's work. In fact, it might be that spending some time critiquing other writers work is what you need to do to exercise your critiquing muscles before you set about addressing your own, that way you can practice objectivity.
Consider joining a writing group of some sort if you are not already in one, that will give you access to people willing to read some of your work and you in turn get practice at reading theirs. Even if you don't do that, there is noting to stop you picking up any published novel and critiquing either the entire book and its structure, or cherry picking scenes to focus on.
And it is worth remembering that whole book structure, it may be that what contributes to the perfection of your handful of gems is the mounting your have set them in, the supporting structure. It is possible for a scene to shine brighter because of the way the supporting book directs the light onto them.
So I recommend taking time, practice critiquing but remember to look at your scenes in context rather than isolation. Once you have some working theories as to where the gems work and the non gems don't you will be well placed to start polishing the rest. But don't be afraid to be brutal with the scenes that aren't so good, it might be that multiple scene-ectomies are required. Sometimes you can take out several flabby scenes and replace them with fewer tighter one.
add a comment |
up vote
2
down vote
up vote
2
down vote
For starters, even the finest novels are not end to end deathless prose, all books have high points and highlights, so don't beat yourself up if not every page is crammed with shimmering gems.
It is probably time for you to sit down with these gems and with some comparable non-shimmering scenes from your novels and give both some rigorous analysis, the same as you might do is you were critiquing anyone else's work. In fact, it might be that spending some time critiquing other writers work is what you need to do to exercise your critiquing muscles before you set about addressing your own, that way you can practice objectivity.
Consider joining a writing group of some sort if you are not already in one, that will give you access to people willing to read some of your work and you in turn get practice at reading theirs. Even if you don't do that, there is noting to stop you picking up any published novel and critiquing either the entire book and its structure, or cherry picking scenes to focus on.
And it is worth remembering that whole book structure, it may be that what contributes to the perfection of your handful of gems is the mounting your have set them in, the supporting structure. It is possible for a scene to shine brighter because of the way the supporting book directs the light onto them.
So I recommend taking time, practice critiquing but remember to look at your scenes in context rather than isolation. Once you have some working theories as to where the gems work and the non gems don't you will be well placed to start polishing the rest. But don't be afraid to be brutal with the scenes that aren't so good, it might be that multiple scene-ectomies are required. Sometimes you can take out several flabby scenes and replace them with fewer tighter one.
For starters, even the finest novels are not end to end deathless prose, all books have high points and highlights, so don't beat yourself up if not every page is crammed with shimmering gems.
It is probably time for you to sit down with these gems and with some comparable non-shimmering scenes from your novels and give both some rigorous analysis, the same as you might do is you were critiquing anyone else's work. In fact, it might be that spending some time critiquing other writers work is what you need to do to exercise your critiquing muscles before you set about addressing your own, that way you can practice objectivity.
Consider joining a writing group of some sort if you are not already in one, that will give you access to people willing to read some of your work and you in turn get practice at reading theirs. Even if you don't do that, there is noting to stop you picking up any published novel and critiquing either the entire book and its structure, or cherry picking scenes to focus on.
And it is worth remembering that whole book structure, it may be that what contributes to the perfection of your handful of gems is the mounting your have set them in, the supporting structure. It is possible for a scene to shine brighter because of the way the supporting book directs the light onto them.
So I recommend taking time, practice critiquing but remember to look at your scenes in context rather than isolation. Once you have some working theories as to where the gems work and the non gems don't you will be well placed to start polishing the rest. But don't be afraid to be brutal with the scenes that aren't so good, it might be that multiple scene-ectomies are required. Sometimes you can take out several flabby scenes and replace them with fewer tighter one.
answered 46 mins ago
Spagirl
48028
48028
add a comment |
add a comment |
up vote
1
down vote
I was wondering what you meant by Struggling with the number of themes in my work
Because I think of themes as coming up organically and not being something you explicitly write.
But now I wonder if you simply have too many ideas. No such thing, right? Unless you get bored and move on to the next idea before the first one has reached fruition.
If your scenes are truly that good, then you know you can write. The problem is sustaining it over the course of a novel. I know from writing my own novel that sometimes you get to a point where it is tedious and you feel like you're slogging through with no end. I'm at a place myself where I've been stuck for a couple of months figuring out family structures, names, and ages of a group of people. This was easy and fun when they were contemporary and done from scratch. It's been hellish doing it with this different group for a historical time period using an existing work and adding to it. I have to make myself push through it and finish it already.
I could just keep writing and finish the book. I have it all in my head. But without the part I'm struggling with, it won't be grounded. It will always be off and I might not even know why.
If you've written several books in 20 years (and wow, most people never complete one book so yay you!) that have a couple of good scenes and the rest is meh, it makes me wonder how much of the boring stuff you've waded through and how many rewrites you've done. Maybe I'm off here. Maybe the issue is structural. That you can write good scenes but have trouble tethering them.
Either way, it's time for outside help. A writing workshop (the kind where you spend 2 weeks on a farm or something), a novel writing class (full semester), a professional editor who's not going to pull punches. Somebody who can figure out exactly what's wrong and how to fix it.
Maybe one or more of your existing books can be pulled apart and re-written. Or maybe you need to start over with new skills. I don't know.
If you've been doing this for 20 years without success, I think it's beyond what some good introspection and online advice can do. The only analogy I can think of is therapy. If you were struggling with a deep-seated personality issue based on past events, introspection and the occasional support group sometimes helps but can only take you so far. It's time to hit the couch and find out what makes you tick. Only in this case, the therapy is for your writing, not your mind.
add a comment |
up vote
1
down vote
I was wondering what you meant by Struggling with the number of themes in my work
Because I think of themes as coming up organically and not being something you explicitly write.
But now I wonder if you simply have too many ideas. No such thing, right? Unless you get bored and move on to the next idea before the first one has reached fruition.
If your scenes are truly that good, then you know you can write. The problem is sustaining it over the course of a novel. I know from writing my own novel that sometimes you get to a point where it is tedious and you feel like you're slogging through with no end. I'm at a place myself where I've been stuck for a couple of months figuring out family structures, names, and ages of a group of people. This was easy and fun when they were contemporary and done from scratch. It's been hellish doing it with this different group for a historical time period using an existing work and adding to it. I have to make myself push through it and finish it already.
I could just keep writing and finish the book. I have it all in my head. But without the part I'm struggling with, it won't be grounded. It will always be off and I might not even know why.
If you've written several books in 20 years (and wow, most people never complete one book so yay you!) that have a couple of good scenes and the rest is meh, it makes me wonder how much of the boring stuff you've waded through and how many rewrites you've done. Maybe I'm off here. Maybe the issue is structural. That you can write good scenes but have trouble tethering them.
Either way, it's time for outside help. A writing workshop (the kind where you spend 2 weeks on a farm or something), a novel writing class (full semester), a professional editor who's not going to pull punches. Somebody who can figure out exactly what's wrong and how to fix it.
Maybe one or more of your existing books can be pulled apart and re-written. Or maybe you need to start over with new skills. I don't know.
If you've been doing this for 20 years without success, I think it's beyond what some good introspection and online advice can do. The only analogy I can think of is therapy. If you were struggling with a deep-seated personality issue based on past events, introspection and the occasional support group sometimes helps but can only take you so far. It's time to hit the couch and find out what makes you tick. Only in this case, the therapy is for your writing, not your mind.
add a comment |
up vote
1
down vote
up vote
1
down vote
I was wondering what you meant by Struggling with the number of themes in my work
Because I think of themes as coming up organically and not being something you explicitly write.
But now I wonder if you simply have too many ideas. No such thing, right? Unless you get bored and move on to the next idea before the first one has reached fruition.
If your scenes are truly that good, then you know you can write. The problem is sustaining it over the course of a novel. I know from writing my own novel that sometimes you get to a point where it is tedious and you feel like you're slogging through with no end. I'm at a place myself where I've been stuck for a couple of months figuring out family structures, names, and ages of a group of people. This was easy and fun when they were contemporary and done from scratch. It's been hellish doing it with this different group for a historical time period using an existing work and adding to it. I have to make myself push through it and finish it already.
I could just keep writing and finish the book. I have it all in my head. But without the part I'm struggling with, it won't be grounded. It will always be off and I might not even know why.
If you've written several books in 20 years (and wow, most people never complete one book so yay you!) that have a couple of good scenes and the rest is meh, it makes me wonder how much of the boring stuff you've waded through and how many rewrites you've done. Maybe I'm off here. Maybe the issue is structural. That you can write good scenes but have trouble tethering them.
Either way, it's time for outside help. A writing workshop (the kind where you spend 2 weeks on a farm or something), a novel writing class (full semester), a professional editor who's not going to pull punches. Somebody who can figure out exactly what's wrong and how to fix it.
Maybe one or more of your existing books can be pulled apart and re-written. Or maybe you need to start over with new skills. I don't know.
If you've been doing this for 20 years without success, I think it's beyond what some good introspection and online advice can do. The only analogy I can think of is therapy. If you were struggling with a deep-seated personality issue based on past events, introspection and the occasional support group sometimes helps but can only take you so far. It's time to hit the couch and find out what makes you tick. Only in this case, the therapy is for your writing, not your mind.
I was wondering what you meant by Struggling with the number of themes in my work
Because I think of themes as coming up organically and not being something you explicitly write.
But now I wonder if you simply have too many ideas. No such thing, right? Unless you get bored and move on to the next idea before the first one has reached fruition.
If your scenes are truly that good, then you know you can write. The problem is sustaining it over the course of a novel. I know from writing my own novel that sometimes you get to a point where it is tedious and you feel like you're slogging through with no end. I'm at a place myself where I've been stuck for a couple of months figuring out family structures, names, and ages of a group of people. This was easy and fun when they were contemporary and done from scratch. It's been hellish doing it with this different group for a historical time period using an existing work and adding to it. I have to make myself push through it and finish it already.
I could just keep writing and finish the book. I have it all in my head. But without the part I'm struggling with, it won't be grounded. It will always be off and I might not even know why.
If you've written several books in 20 years (and wow, most people never complete one book so yay you!) that have a couple of good scenes and the rest is meh, it makes me wonder how much of the boring stuff you've waded through and how many rewrites you've done. Maybe I'm off here. Maybe the issue is structural. That you can write good scenes but have trouble tethering them.
Either way, it's time for outside help. A writing workshop (the kind where you spend 2 weeks on a farm or something), a novel writing class (full semester), a professional editor who's not going to pull punches. Somebody who can figure out exactly what's wrong and how to fix it.
Maybe one or more of your existing books can be pulled apart and re-written. Or maybe you need to start over with new skills. I don't know.
If you've been doing this for 20 years without success, I think it's beyond what some good introspection and online advice can do. The only analogy I can think of is therapy. If you were struggling with a deep-seated personality issue based on past events, introspection and the occasional support group sometimes helps but can only take you so far. It's time to hit the couch and find out what makes you tick. Only in this case, the therapy is for your writing, not your mind.
answered 48 mins ago
Cyn
3,399326
3,399326
add a comment |
add a comment |
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I wouldn't want to say anything out of context but here I go : Perhaps you are really good at building those scenes, but the "building time" isn't entertaining enough ? Meaning, you could work on the swiftness at which you build them. I know books who solely rely on building one single gem, and the readers follow them because they know this scene will be up to their taste.
– Sasugasm
2 hours ago