How do I solve this interesting age problem with divisibility?
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14
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Here are some facts about myself:
- Last year, I was $15$ years old.
- Canada, my country, was $150$ years old.
When will be the next time that my country's age will be a multiple of mine?
I've toned this down to a function. With $n$ being the number of years before this will happen and $m$ being any integer,
$$frac{150+n}{15+n}=m$$
How would you find $n$?
algebra-precalculus divisibility recreational-mathematics integers
New contributor
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up vote
14
down vote
favorite
Here are some facts about myself:
- Last year, I was $15$ years old.
- Canada, my country, was $150$ years old.
When will be the next time that my country's age will be a multiple of mine?
I've toned this down to a function. With $n$ being the number of years before this will happen and $m$ being any integer,
$$frac{150+n}{15+n}=m$$
How would you find $n$?
algebra-precalculus divisibility recreational-mathematics integers
New contributor
For extra credit, consider that Canada turned 150 on July 1, 2017. If your birthday is after that date, 14+n is also a valid denominator, as you will be both age 14 and age 15 during the 12 months that Canada is 150 years old. Likewise, if your 15th birthday is before that date, 16+n is a valid denominator, since you will be 15 when Canada turns 150, but turn 16 before Canada turns 151.
– Nuclear Wang
5 hours ago
4
For the sake of aesthetic, please don't use $mathbb Z$ to denote an integer. It is the set of integers.
– Kemono Chen
5 hours ago
Why not just propose that edit directly? Took all of ten seconds.
– Nij
4 hours ago
add a comment |
up vote
14
down vote
favorite
up vote
14
down vote
favorite
Here are some facts about myself:
- Last year, I was $15$ years old.
- Canada, my country, was $150$ years old.
When will be the next time that my country's age will be a multiple of mine?
I've toned this down to a function. With $n$ being the number of years before this will happen and $m$ being any integer,
$$frac{150+n}{15+n}=m$$
How would you find $n$?
algebra-precalculus divisibility recreational-mathematics integers
New contributor
Here are some facts about myself:
- Last year, I was $15$ years old.
- Canada, my country, was $150$ years old.
When will be the next time that my country's age will be a multiple of mine?
I've toned this down to a function. With $n$ being the number of years before this will happen and $m$ being any integer,
$$frac{150+n}{15+n}=m$$
How would you find $n$?
algebra-precalculus divisibility recreational-mathematics integers
algebra-precalculus divisibility recreational-mathematics integers
New contributor
New contributor
edited 38 mins ago
Servaes
21.9k33793
21.9k33793
New contributor
asked 11 hours ago
Raymo111
1856
1856
New contributor
New contributor
For extra credit, consider that Canada turned 150 on July 1, 2017. If your birthday is after that date, 14+n is also a valid denominator, as you will be both age 14 and age 15 during the 12 months that Canada is 150 years old. Likewise, if your 15th birthday is before that date, 16+n is a valid denominator, since you will be 15 when Canada turns 150, but turn 16 before Canada turns 151.
– Nuclear Wang
5 hours ago
4
For the sake of aesthetic, please don't use $mathbb Z$ to denote an integer. It is the set of integers.
– Kemono Chen
5 hours ago
Why not just propose that edit directly? Took all of ten seconds.
– Nij
4 hours ago
add a comment |
For extra credit, consider that Canada turned 150 on July 1, 2017. If your birthday is after that date, 14+n is also a valid denominator, as you will be both age 14 and age 15 during the 12 months that Canada is 150 years old. Likewise, if your 15th birthday is before that date, 16+n is a valid denominator, since you will be 15 when Canada turns 150, but turn 16 before Canada turns 151.
– Nuclear Wang
5 hours ago
4
For the sake of aesthetic, please don't use $mathbb Z$ to denote an integer. It is the set of integers.
– Kemono Chen
5 hours ago
Why not just propose that edit directly? Took all of ten seconds.
– Nij
4 hours ago
For extra credit, consider that Canada turned 150 on July 1, 2017. If your birthday is after that date, 14+n is also a valid denominator, as you will be both age 14 and age 15 during the 12 months that Canada is 150 years old. Likewise, if your 15th birthday is before that date, 16+n is a valid denominator, since you will be 15 when Canada turns 150, but turn 16 before Canada turns 151.
– Nuclear Wang
5 hours ago
For extra credit, consider that Canada turned 150 on July 1, 2017. If your birthday is after that date, 14+n is also a valid denominator, as you will be both age 14 and age 15 during the 12 months that Canada is 150 years old. Likewise, if your 15th birthday is before that date, 16+n is a valid denominator, since you will be 15 when Canada turns 150, but turn 16 before Canada turns 151.
– Nuclear Wang
5 hours ago
4
4
For the sake of aesthetic, please don't use $mathbb Z$ to denote an integer. It is the set of integers.
– Kemono Chen
5 hours ago
For the sake of aesthetic, please don't use $mathbb Z$ to denote an integer. It is the set of integers.
– Kemono Chen
5 hours ago
Why not just propose that edit directly? Took all of ten seconds.
– Nij
4 hours ago
Why not just propose that edit directly? Took all of ten seconds.
– Nij
4 hours ago
add a comment |
7 Answers
7
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up vote
13
down vote
accepted
You want $frac{150+n}{15+n}=m$, and clearing denominators gives us
$$150+n=(15+n)m,$$
and subtracting $15+n$ from both sides give us
$$135=(15+n)(m-1).$$
Now you are looking for the smallest $n>1$ for which such an $m$ exists, so the smallest $n>1$ for which $15+n$ divides $135$.
Love it, thank you! Is 120 the only $n$ that exists for such a case? (Because $135over270$ $=$ $1over2$)?
– Raymo111
11 hours ago
What's wrong with $n=12$? The other solutions are $n=30$ and $n=120$.
– Servaes
10 hours ago
Oh shoot, I mistakenly read your answer as $n+15=135$, my bad! Also, upvote if you think this question that I thought of was interesting, it's a real-life example of an age problem.
– Raymo111
10 hours ago
add a comment |
up vote
21
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First thing I would do is say that Canada is $135$ years older than you.
That gives you a simpler
$frac {135+n}{n} = k\
frac {135}{n} = k-1\$
It will happen every time your age is a factor of $135.$
It last happened when you were $15.$ It will next happen when you are $27$
add a comment |
up vote
7
down vote
We want the smallest positive integer $n$ such that there is some (positive) integer $k$ such that
$$frac{150+n}{15+n}=k.$$
Note that $k=1$ can never work, so we can assume $k-1neq0.$ Now we rearrange the above equation: multiplying both sides by $15+n,$ we get $150+n=15k+nk;$ now rearrange and factorize to get $15(10-k)=(k-1)n;$ and now divide both sides by $k-1,$ to get
$$n=frac{15(10-k)}{k-1}.$$
Since we want the smallest positive integer $n,$ we can just try values of $kin{2,3,ldots,9},$ starting from the largest and working our way down (because the function of $k$ on the right-hand side is decreasing in this range), until we arrive at an integer value of $n.$* When $k=9,$ $8$ or $7$ we get non-integer values of $n;$ when $k=6$ we find $n=15times4/5=12.$
So last year, $n$ was $0,$ and the ratio of Canada's age to your age was $k=150/15=10;$ and $11$ years from now, $n$ will be $12,$ and the ratio of Canada's age to your age will be $k=162/27=6.$
*Incidentally, it is not obvious in advance that we will ever get an integer value of $n;$ if this were the case then the problem would simply have no answer. As it happens, the problem does have answers, namely $(n,k)in{(0,10),(12,6),(30,4),(120,2)}.$
@Servaes: Thanks, I have edited the answer.
– Will R
10 hours ago
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up vote
2
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Alternatively:
$frac {150 + n}{15 + n} = frac {150+ 10n}{15+n} +frac {-9 n}{15+n}$
$=10 -frac {9 n}{15+n}$ (which is an integer for $n=0$ but when next?)
$=10 - frac {9n + 9*15}{15+n} + frac {9*15}{15+n}=$
$=10 - 9 + frac{3^3*5}{15+n}= 1 + frac{3^3*5}{15+n}$
which is an integer if $15+n$ is one of the factors of $3^3*5$.
And the factors of $3^3*5$ are $1, 3,9, 27, 5,15, 45, 135$.
So this will occur when $n = -14,-12, -10, -6,0, 12,30, 120$
When you are $1, 3, 5, 9, 15, 27, 45, 135$ and canada is $136, 138, 140, 144, 150, 162, 180, 270$ and canada is exactly $136,46, 28, 16, 10,6,4, 2$ as old as you are.
(Enjoy your $45$ birthday when your country annexes my country after we collapse from the thirty year aftermath of the unrecoverable mistakes of the last two years.)
That's a fun problem. It's nice to see other people like to think about these things.
That's nice, that's the way I usually think about these problems too; but you can shorten the process by writing $dfrac {150+n}{15+n} = dfrac {15+n}{15+n} + dfrac{135}{15+n}$
– Ovi
8 hours ago
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up vote
1
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Note that if $k mid a$ and $k mid b$, then $k mid a - b$. In this particular instance, we have $15 + n mid 15 + n$ and $15 + n mid 150 + n$, so $15 + n mid 135$. In other words, we are looking for $n+15$ to be the next factor of $135$ which is larger than $15$. Can you continue from here?
add a comment |
up vote
0
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In general questions like this, where
$frac{x+n}{y+n}=m$
$m$ will be an integer smaller than $frac{x}{y}$. Not all values of $m$ will generally give an integer $n$.
add a comment |
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0
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Servaes answer is excellent but let me add few cents for those who can't really make out something from dual variables and other factors (I know some people have problem with such things).
There is also a brute force solution, requiring a bit of thinking and a bit of simple calculation (the larger is the $n$ i $n$-times larger the more difficult it becomes though so I really suggest you try understanding the accepted solution anyway).
It's enough to check if there is an integer solution to equation
$$frac{150+n}{15+n}=9$$
If no, proceed with 8, 7 and so on. If you get to 2 and still have no anwser then the answer is never.
So a quick brute force check will like that:
$$frac{150+n}{15+n}=9$$
$$150+n=9cdot(15+n)$$
$$150+n=135+9cdot n$$
$$15=8cdot n$$
$$n = frac{15}{8}notinmathbb{Z}$$
So we continue with $8$
$$frac{150+n}{15+n}=8$$
$$150+n=8cdot(15+n)$$
$$150+n=120+8cdot n$$
$$30=7cdot n$$
$$n = frac{30}{7}notinmathbb{Z}$$
You may continue from here. Note, a smart person using this method will notice some pattern that will make it even simpler to test (not requiring all the calculation, just a quick check that literally takes seconds) but I will not give a direct hint.
Explanation
When you add the same number to both numerator and denominator of a fraction, the fraction decreases. In other words if you consider how the fraction of age of Canada and your age changes over time it will decrease.
On the other hand the fraction can never go to $1$ (or below) since the numerator will always be obviously greater than denominator (in our case by 135).
In other words you have a finite set of possible resultant fractions (namely ${2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9}$) that are potentially the sought "next case". From those you're looking for the largest one, so test them one by one, starting with $9$ and going down until you have an integer result or your options are gone.
Remarks
- Once again - this is a brute force solution and should not be treated as preferred if you can understand using two variables. But if you can't, it's still doable.
- If you notice the relationship I mention above, I guess even testing situation where the initial fraction is 100 could be done.
- You may try solving an interesting opposite question - when was the last time when such situation occurred (i.e. Canadas age was a multiply of your age). If you think it over well, you may use both Servaes and my approaches to that as well. Especially try rationalising that my approach will again have a finite and easily predictable number of tests to be performed.
- A food for thoughts. Is there always a solution to the original question (with differently chosen ages)? Is there always a solution to the problem I state in remark 3?
- Can you think of other related questions that will use similar approach (either Servaes's elegant one or mine brute force) to find a solution?
add a comment |
7 Answers
7
active
oldest
votes
7 Answers
7
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
13
down vote
accepted
You want $frac{150+n}{15+n}=m$, and clearing denominators gives us
$$150+n=(15+n)m,$$
and subtracting $15+n$ from both sides give us
$$135=(15+n)(m-1).$$
Now you are looking for the smallest $n>1$ for which such an $m$ exists, so the smallest $n>1$ for which $15+n$ divides $135$.
Love it, thank you! Is 120 the only $n$ that exists for such a case? (Because $135over270$ $=$ $1over2$)?
– Raymo111
11 hours ago
What's wrong with $n=12$? The other solutions are $n=30$ and $n=120$.
– Servaes
10 hours ago
Oh shoot, I mistakenly read your answer as $n+15=135$, my bad! Also, upvote if you think this question that I thought of was interesting, it's a real-life example of an age problem.
– Raymo111
10 hours ago
add a comment |
up vote
13
down vote
accepted
You want $frac{150+n}{15+n}=m$, and clearing denominators gives us
$$150+n=(15+n)m,$$
and subtracting $15+n$ from both sides give us
$$135=(15+n)(m-1).$$
Now you are looking for the smallest $n>1$ for which such an $m$ exists, so the smallest $n>1$ for which $15+n$ divides $135$.
Love it, thank you! Is 120 the only $n$ that exists for such a case? (Because $135over270$ $=$ $1over2$)?
– Raymo111
11 hours ago
What's wrong with $n=12$? The other solutions are $n=30$ and $n=120$.
– Servaes
10 hours ago
Oh shoot, I mistakenly read your answer as $n+15=135$, my bad! Also, upvote if you think this question that I thought of was interesting, it's a real-life example of an age problem.
– Raymo111
10 hours ago
add a comment |
up vote
13
down vote
accepted
up vote
13
down vote
accepted
You want $frac{150+n}{15+n}=m$, and clearing denominators gives us
$$150+n=(15+n)m,$$
and subtracting $15+n$ from both sides give us
$$135=(15+n)(m-1).$$
Now you are looking for the smallest $n>1$ for which such an $m$ exists, so the smallest $n>1$ for which $15+n$ divides $135$.
You want $frac{150+n}{15+n}=m$, and clearing denominators gives us
$$150+n=(15+n)m,$$
and subtracting $15+n$ from both sides give us
$$135=(15+n)(m-1).$$
Now you are looking for the smallest $n>1$ for which such an $m$ exists, so the smallest $n>1$ for which $15+n$ divides $135$.
edited 37 mins ago
answered 11 hours ago
Servaes
21.9k33793
21.9k33793
Love it, thank you! Is 120 the only $n$ that exists for such a case? (Because $135over270$ $=$ $1over2$)?
– Raymo111
11 hours ago
What's wrong with $n=12$? The other solutions are $n=30$ and $n=120$.
– Servaes
10 hours ago
Oh shoot, I mistakenly read your answer as $n+15=135$, my bad! Also, upvote if you think this question that I thought of was interesting, it's a real-life example of an age problem.
– Raymo111
10 hours ago
add a comment |
Love it, thank you! Is 120 the only $n$ that exists for such a case? (Because $135over270$ $=$ $1over2$)?
– Raymo111
11 hours ago
What's wrong with $n=12$? The other solutions are $n=30$ and $n=120$.
– Servaes
10 hours ago
Oh shoot, I mistakenly read your answer as $n+15=135$, my bad! Also, upvote if you think this question that I thought of was interesting, it's a real-life example of an age problem.
– Raymo111
10 hours ago
Love it, thank you! Is 120 the only $n$ that exists for such a case? (Because $135over270$ $=$ $1over2$)?
– Raymo111
11 hours ago
Love it, thank you! Is 120 the only $n$ that exists for such a case? (Because $135over270$ $=$ $1over2$)?
– Raymo111
11 hours ago
What's wrong with $n=12$? The other solutions are $n=30$ and $n=120$.
– Servaes
10 hours ago
What's wrong with $n=12$? The other solutions are $n=30$ and $n=120$.
– Servaes
10 hours ago
Oh shoot, I mistakenly read your answer as $n+15=135$, my bad! Also, upvote if you think this question that I thought of was interesting, it's a real-life example of an age problem.
– Raymo111
10 hours ago
Oh shoot, I mistakenly read your answer as $n+15=135$, my bad! Also, upvote if you think this question that I thought of was interesting, it's a real-life example of an age problem.
– Raymo111
10 hours ago
add a comment |
up vote
21
down vote
First thing I would do is say that Canada is $135$ years older than you.
That gives you a simpler
$frac {135+n}{n} = k\
frac {135}{n} = k-1\$
It will happen every time your age is a factor of $135.$
It last happened when you were $15.$ It will next happen when you are $27$
add a comment |
up vote
21
down vote
First thing I would do is say that Canada is $135$ years older than you.
That gives you a simpler
$frac {135+n}{n} = k\
frac {135}{n} = k-1\$
It will happen every time your age is a factor of $135.$
It last happened when you were $15.$ It will next happen when you are $27$
add a comment |
up vote
21
down vote
up vote
21
down vote
First thing I would do is say that Canada is $135$ years older than you.
That gives you a simpler
$frac {135+n}{n} = k\
frac {135}{n} = k-1\$
It will happen every time your age is a factor of $135.$
It last happened when you were $15.$ It will next happen when you are $27$
First thing I would do is say that Canada is $135$ years older than you.
That gives you a simpler
$frac {135+n}{n} = k\
frac {135}{n} = k-1\$
It will happen every time your age is a factor of $135.$
It last happened when you were $15.$ It will next happen when you are $27$
answered 10 hours ago
Doug M
43.4k31754
43.4k31754
add a comment |
add a comment |
up vote
7
down vote
We want the smallest positive integer $n$ such that there is some (positive) integer $k$ such that
$$frac{150+n}{15+n}=k.$$
Note that $k=1$ can never work, so we can assume $k-1neq0.$ Now we rearrange the above equation: multiplying both sides by $15+n,$ we get $150+n=15k+nk;$ now rearrange and factorize to get $15(10-k)=(k-1)n;$ and now divide both sides by $k-1,$ to get
$$n=frac{15(10-k)}{k-1}.$$
Since we want the smallest positive integer $n,$ we can just try values of $kin{2,3,ldots,9},$ starting from the largest and working our way down (because the function of $k$ on the right-hand side is decreasing in this range), until we arrive at an integer value of $n.$* When $k=9,$ $8$ or $7$ we get non-integer values of $n;$ when $k=6$ we find $n=15times4/5=12.$
So last year, $n$ was $0,$ and the ratio of Canada's age to your age was $k=150/15=10;$ and $11$ years from now, $n$ will be $12,$ and the ratio of Canada's age to your age will be $k=162/27=6.$
*Incidentally, it is not obvious in advance that we will ever get an integer value of $n;$ if this were the case then the problem would simply have no answer. As it happens, the problem does have answers, namely $(n,k)in{(0,10),(12,6),(30,4),(120,2)}.$
@Servaes: Thanks, I have edited the answer.
– Will R
10 hours ago
add a comment |
up vote
7
down vote
We want the smallest positive integer $n$ such that there is some (positive) integer $k$ such that
$$frac{150+n}{15+n}=k.$$
Note that $k=1$ can never work, so we can assume $k-1neq0.$ Now we rearrange the above equation: multiplying both sides by $15+n,$ we get $150+n=15k+nk;$ now rearrange and factorize to get $15(10-k)=(k-1)n;$ and now divide both sides by $k-1,$ to get
$$n=frac{15(10-k)}{k-1}.$$
Since we want the smallest positive integer $n,$ we can just try values of $kin{2,3,ldots,9},$ starting from the largest and working our way down (because the function of $k$ on the right-hand side is decreasing in this range), until we arrive at an integer value of $n.$* When $k=9,$ $8$ or $7$ we get non-integer values of $n;$ when $k=6$ we find $n=15times4/5=12.$
So last year, $n$ was $0,$ and the ratio of Canada's age to your age was $k=150/15=10;$ and $11$ years from now, $n$ will be $12,$ and the ratio of Canada's age to your age will be $k=162/27=6.$
*Incidentally, it is not obvious in advance that we will ever get an integer value of $n;$ if this were the case then the problem would simply have no answer. As it happens, the problem does have answers, namely $(n,k)in{(0,10),(12,6),(30,4),(120,2)}.$
@Servaes: Thanks, I have edited the answer.
– Will R
10 hours ago
add a comment |
up vote
7
down vote
up vote
7
down vote
We want the smallest positive integer $n$ such that there is some (positive) integer $k$ such that
$$frac{150+n}{15+n}=k.$$
Note that $k=1$ can never work, so we can assume $k-1neq0.$ Now we rearrange the above equation: multiplying both sides by $15+n,$ we get $150+n=15k+nk;$ now rearrange and factorize to get $15(10-k)=(k-1)n;$ and now divide both sides by $k-1,$ to get
$$n=frac{15(10-k)}{k-1}.$$
Since we want the smallest positive integer $n,$ we can just try values of $kin{2,3,ldots,9},$ starting from the largest and working our way down (because the function of $k$ on the right-hand side is decreasing in this range), until we arrive at an integer value of $n.$* When $k=9,$ $8$ or $7$ we get non-integer values of $n;$ when $k=6$ we find $n=15times4/5=12.$
So last year, $n$ was $0,$ and the ratio of Canada's age to your age was $k=150/15=10;$ and $11$ years from now, $n$ will be $12,$ and the ratio of Canada's age to your age will be $k=162/27=6.$
*Incidentally, it is not obvious in advance that we will ever get an integer value of $n;$ if this were the case then the problem would simply have no answer. As it happens, the problem does have answers, namely $(n,k)in{(0,10),(12,6),(30,4),(120,2)}.$
We want the smallest positive integer $n$ such that there is some (positive) integer $k$ such that
$$frac{150+n}{15+n}=k.$$
Note that $k=1$ can never work, so we can assume $k-1neq0.$ Now we rearrange the above equation: multiplying both sides by $15+n,$ we get $150+n=15k+nk;$ now rearrange and factorize to get $15(10-k)=(k-1)n;$ and now divide both sides by $k-1,$ to get
$$n=frac{15(10-k)}{k-1}.$$
Since we want the smallest positive integer $n,$ we can just try values of $kin{2,3,ldots,9},$ starting from the largest and working our way down (because the function of $k$ on the right-hand side is decreasing in this range), until we arrive at an integer value of $n.$* When $k=9,$ $8$ or $7$ we get non-integer values of $n;$ when $k=6$ we find $n=15times4/5=12.$
So last year, $n$ was $0,$ and the ratio of Canada's age to your age was $k=150/15=10;$ and $11$ years from now, $n$ will be $12,$ and the ratio of Canada's age to your age will be $k=162/27=6.$
*Incidentally, it is not obvious in advance that we will ever get an integer value of $n;$ if this were the case then the problem would simply have no answer. As it happens, the problem does have answers, namely $(n,k)in{(0,10),(12,6),(30,4),(120,2)}.$
edited 10 hours ago
answered 10 hours ago
Will R
6,51231429
6,51231429
@Servaes: Thanks, I have edited the answer.
– Will R
10 hours ago
add a comment |
@Servaes: Thanks, I have edited the answer.
– Will R
10 hours ago
@Servaes: Thanks, I have edited the answer.
– Will R
10 hours ago
@Servaes: Thanks, I have edited the answer.
– Will R
10 hours ago
add a comment |
up vote
2
down vote
Alternatively:
$frac {150 + n}{15 + n} = frac {150+ 10n}{15+n} +frac {-9 n}{15+n}$
$=10 -frac {9 n}{15+n}$ (which is an integer for $n=0$ but when next?)
$=10 - frac {9n + 9*15}{15+n} + frac {9*15}{15+n}=$
$=10 - 9 + frac{3^3*5}{15+n}= 1 + frac{3^3*5}{15+n}$
which is an integer if $15+n$ is one of the factors of $3^3*5$.
And the factors of $3^3*5$ are $1, 3,9, 27, 5,15, 45, 135$.
So this will occur when $n = -14,-12, -10, -6,0, 12,30, 120$
When you are $1, 3, 5, 9, 15, 27, 45, 135$ and canada is $136, 138, 140, 144, 150, 162, 180, 270$ and canada is exactly $136,46, 28, 16, 10,6,4, 2$ as old as you are.
(Enjoy your $45$ birthday when your country annexes my country after we collapse from the thirty year aftermath of the unrecoverable mistakes of the last two years.)
That's a fun problem. It's nice to see other people like to think about these things.
That's nice, that's the way I usually think about these problems too; but you can shorten the process by writing $dfrac {150+n}{15+n} = dfrac {15+n}{15+n} + dfrac{135}{15+n}$
– Ovi
8 hours ago
add a comment |
up vote
2
down vote
Alternatively:
$frac {150 + n}{15 + n} = frac {150+ 10n}{15+n} +frac {-9 n}{15+n}$
$=10 -frac {9 n}{15+n}$ (which is an integer for $n=0$ but when next?)
$=10 - frac {9n + 9*15}{15+n} + frac {9*15}{15+n}=$
$=10 - 9 + frac{3^3*5}{15+n}= 1 + frac{3^3*5}{15+n}$
which is an integer if $15+n$ is one of the factors of $3^3*5$.
And the factors of $3^3*5$ are $1, 3,9, 27, 5,15, 45, 135$.
So this will occur when $n = -14,-12, -10, -6,0, 12,30, 120$
When you are $1, 3, 5, 9, 15, 27, 45, 135$ and canada is $136, 138, 140, 144, 150, 162, 180, 270$ and canada is exactly $136,46, 28, 16, 10,6,4, 2$ as old as you are.
(Enjoy your $45$ birthday when your country annexes my country after we collapse from the thirty year aftermath of the unrecoverable mistakes of the last two years.)
That's a fun problem. It's nice to see other people like to think about these things.
That's nice, that's the way I usually think about these problems too; but you can shorten the process by writing $dfrac {150+n}{15+n} = dfrac {15+n}{15+n} + dfrac{135}{15+n}$
– Ovi
8 hours ago
add a comment |
up vote
2
down vote
up vote
2
down vote
Alternatively:
$frac {150 + n}{15 + n} = frac {150+ 10n}{15+n} +frac {-9 n}{15+n}$
$=10 -frac {9 n}{15+n}$ (which is an integer for $n=0$ but when next?)
$=10 - frac {9n + 9*15}{15+n} + frac {9*15}{15+n}=$
$=10 - 9 + frac{3^3*5}{15+n}= 1 + frac{3^3*5}{15+n}$
which is an integer if $15+n$ is one of the factors of $3^3*5$.
And the factors of $3^3*5$ are $1, 3,9, 27, 5,15, 45, 135$.
So this will occur when $n = -14,-12, -10, -6,0, 12,30, 120$
When you are $1, 3, 5, 9, 15, 27, 45, 135$ and canada is $136, 138, 140, 144, 150, 162, 180, 270$ and canada is exactly $136,46, 28, 16, 10,6,4, 2$ as old as you are.
(Enjoy your $45$ birthday when your country annexes my country after we collapse from the thirty year aftermath of the unrecoverable mistakes of the last two years.)
That's a fun problem. It's nice to see other people like to think about these things.
Alternatively:
$frac {150 + n}{15 + n} = frac {150+ 10n}{15+n} +frac {-9 n}{15+n}$
$=10 -frac {9 n}{15+n}$ (which is an integer for $n=0$ but when next?)
$=10 - frac {9n + 9*15}{15+n} + frac {9*15}{15+n}=$
$=10 - 9 + frac{3^3*5}{15+n}= 1 + frac{3^3*5}{15+n}$
which is an integer if $15+n$ is one of the factors of $3^3*5$.
And the factors of $3^3*5$ are $1, 3,9, 27, 5,15, 45, 135$.
So this will occur when $n = -14,-12, -10, -6,0, 12,30, 120$
When you are $1, 3, 5, 9, 15, 27, 45, 135$ and canada is $136, 138, 140, 144, 150, 162, 180, 270$ and canada is exactly $136,46, 28, 16, 10,6,4, 2$ as old as you are.
(Enjoy your $45$ birthday when your country annexes my country after we collapse from the thirty year aftermath of the unrecoverable mistakes of the last two years.)
That's a fun problem. It's nice to see other people like to think about these things.
answered 9 hours ago
fleablood
67.3k22684
67.3k22684
That's nice, that's the way I usually think about these problems too; but you can shorten the process by writing $dfrac {150+n}{15+n} = dfrac {15+n}{15+n} + dfrac{135}{15+n}$
– Ovi
8 hours ago
add a comment |
That's nice, that's the way I usually think about these problems too; but you can shorten the process by writing $dfrac {150+n}{15+n} = dfrac {15+n}{15+n} + dfrac{135}{15+n}$
– Ovi
8 hours ago
That's nice, that's the way I usually think about these problems too; but you can shorten the process by writing $dfrac {150+n}{15+n} = dfrac {15+n}{15+n} + dfrac{135}{15+n}$
– Ovi
8 hours ago
That's nice, that's the way I usually think about these problems too; but you can shorten the process by writing $dfrac {150+n}{15+n} = dfrac {15+n}{15+n} + dfrac{135}{15+n}$
– Ovi
8 hours ago
add a comment |
up vote
1
down vote
Note that if $k mid a$ and $k mid b$, then $k mid a - b$. In this particular instance, we have $15 + n mid 15 + n$ and $15 + n mid 150 + n$, so $15 + n mid 135$. In other words, we are looking for $n+15$ to be the next factor of $135$ which is larger than $15$. Can you continue from here?
add a comment |
up vote
1
down vote
Note that if $k mid a$ and $k mid b$, then $k mid a - b$. In this particular instance, we have $15 + n mid 15 + n$ and $15 + n mid 150 + n$, so $15 + n mid 135$. In other words, we are looking for $n+15$ to be the next factor of $135$ which is larger than $15$. Can you continue from here?
add a comment |
up vote
1
down vote
up vote
1
down vote
Note that if $k mid a$ and $k mid b$, then $k mid a - b$. In this particular instance, we have $15 + n mid 15 + n$ and $15 + n mid 150 + n$, so $15 + n mid 135$. In other words, we are looking for $n+15$ to be the next factor of $135$ which is larger than $15$. Can you continue from here?
Note that if $k mid a$ and $k mid b$, then $k mid a - b$. In this particular instance, we have $15 + n mid 15 + n$ and $15 + n mid 150 + n$, so $15 + n mid 135$. In other words, we are looking for $n+15$ to be the next factor of $135$ which is larger than $15$. Can you continue from here?
answered 11 hours ago
platty
3,125319
3,125319
add a comment |
add a comment |
up vote
0
down vote
In general questions like this, where
$frac{x+n}{y+n}=m$
$m$ will be an integer smaller than $frac{x}{y}$. Not all values of $m$ will generally give an integer $n$.
add a comment |
up vote
0
down vote
In general questions like this, where
$frac{x+n}{y+n}=m$
$m$ will be an integer smaller than $frac{x}{y}$. Not all values of $m$ will generally give an integer $n$.
add a comment |
up vote
0
down vote
up vote
0
down vote
In general questions like this, where
$frac{x+n}{y+n}=m$
$m$ will be an integer smaller than $frac{x}{y}$. Not all values of $m$ will generally give an integer $n$.
In general questions like this, where
$frac{x+n}{y+n}=m$
$m$ will be an integer smaller than $frac{x}{y}$. Not all values of $m$ will generally give an integer $n$.
answered 3 hours ago
Prem kumar
17410
17410
add a comment |
add a comment |
up vote
0
down vote
Servaes answer is excellent but let me add few cents for those who can't really make out something from dual variables and other factors (I know some people have problem with such things).
There is also a brute force solution, requiring a bit of thinking and a bit of simple calculation (the larger is the $n$ i $n$-times larger the more difficult it becomes though so I really suggest you try understanding the accepted solution anyway).
It's enough to check if there is an integer solution to equation
$$frac{150+n}{15+n}=9$$
If no, proceed with 8, 7 and so on. If you get to 2 and still have no anwser then the answer is never.
So a quick brute force check will like that:
$$frac{150+n}{15+n}=9$$
$$150+n=9cdot(15+n)$$
$$150+n=135+9cdot n$$
$$15=8cdot n$$
$$n = frac{15}{8}notinmathbb{Z}$$
So we continue with $8$
$$frac{150+n}{15+n}=8$$
$$150+n=8cdot(15+n)$$
$$150+n=120+8cdot n$$
$$30=7cdot n$$
$$n = frac{30}{7}notinmathbb{Z}$$
You may continue from here. Note, a smart person using this method will notice some pattern that will make it even simpler to test (not requiring all the calculation, just a quick check that literally takes seconds) but I will not give a direct hint.
Explanation
When you add the same number to both numerator and denominator of a fraction, the fraction decreases. In other words if you consider how the fraction of age of Canada and your age changes over time it will decrease.
On the other hand the fraction can never go to $1$ (or below) since the numerator will always be obviously greater than denominator (in our case by 135).
In other words you have a finite set of possible resultant fractions (namely ${2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9}$) that are potentially the sought "next case". From those you're looking for the largest one, so test them one by one, starting with $9$ and going down until you have an integer result or your options are gone.
Remarks
- Once again - this is a brute force solution and should not be treated as preferred if you can understand using two variables. But if you can't, it's still doable.
- If you notice the relationship I mention above, I guess even testing situation where the initial fraction is 100 could be done.
- You may try solving an interesting opposite question - when was the last time when such situation occurred (i.e. Canadas age was a multiply of your age). If you think it over well, you may use both Servaes and my approaches to that as well. Especially try rationalising that my approach will again have a finite and easily predictable number of tests to be performed.
- A food for thoughts. Is there always a solution to the original question (with differently chosen ages)? Is there always a solution to the problem I state in remark 3?
- Can you think of other related questions that will use similar approach (either Servaes's elegant one or mine brute force) to find a solution?
add a comment |
up vote
0
down vote
Servaes answer is excellent but let me add few cents for those who can't really make out something from dual variables and other factors (I know some people have problem with such things).
There is also a brute force solution, requiring a bit of thinking and a bit of simple calculation (the larger is the $n$ i $n$-times larger the more difficult it becomes though so I really suggest you try understanding the accepted solution anyway).
It's enough to check if there is an integer solution to equation
$$frac{150+n}{15+n}=9$$
If no, proceed with 8, 7 and so on. If you get to 2 and still have no anwser then the answer is never.
So a quick brute force check will like that:
$$frac{150+n}{15+n}=9$$
$$150+n=9cdot(15+n)$$
$$150+n=135+9cdot n$$
$$15=8cdot n$$
$$n = frac{15}{8}notinmathbb{Z}$$
So we continue with $8$
$$frac{150+n}{15+n}=8$$
$$150+n=8cdot(15+n)$$
$$150+n=120+8cdot n$$
$$30=7cdot n$$
$$n = frac{30}{7}notinmathbb{Z}$$
You may continue from here. Note, a smart person using this method will notice some pattern that will make it even simpler to test (not requiring all the calculation, just a quick check that literally takes seconds) but I will not give a direct hint.
Explanation
When you add the same number to both numerator and denominator of a fraction, the fraction decreases. In other words if you consider how the fraction of age of Canada and your age changes over time it will decrease.
On the other hand the fraction can never go to $1$ (or below) since the numerator will always be obviously greater than denominator (in our case by 135).
In other words you have a finite set of possible resultant fractions (namely ${2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9}$) that are potentially the sought "next case". From those you're looking for the largest one, so test them one by one, starting with $9$ and going down until you have an integer result or your options are gone.
Remarks
- Once again - this is a brute force solution and should not be treated as preferred if you can understand using two variables. But if you can't, it's still doable.
- If you notice the relationship I mention above, I guess even testing situation where the initial fraction is 100 could be done.
- You may try solving an interesting opposite question - when was the last time when such situation occurred (i.e. Canadas age was a multiply of your age). If you think it over well, you may use both Servaes and my approaches to that as well. Especially try rationalising that my approach will again have a finite and easily predictable number of tests to be performed.
- A food for thoughts. Is there always a solution to the original question (with differently chosen ages)? Is there always a solution to the problem I state in remark 3?
- Can you think of other related questions that will use similar approach (either Servaes's elegant one or mine brute force) to find a solution?
add a comment |
up vote
0
down vote
up vote
0
down vote
Servaes answer is excellent but let me add few cents for those who can't really make out something from dual variables and other factors (I know some people have problem with such things).
There is also a brute force solution, requiring a bit of thinking and a bit of simple calculation (the larger is the $n$ i $n$-times larger the more difficult it becomes though so I really suggest you try understanding the accepted solution anyway).
It's enough to check if there is an integer solution to equation
$$frac{150+n}{15+n}=9$$
If no, proceed with 8, 7 and so on. If you get to 2 and still have no anwser then the answer is never.
So a quick brute force check will like that:
$$frac{150+n}{15+n}=9$$
$$150+n=9cdot(15+n)$$
$$150+n=135+9cdot n$$
$$15=8cdot n$$
$$n = frac{15}{8}notinmathbb{Z}$$
So we continue with $8$
$$frac{150+n}{15+n}=8$$
$$150+n=8cdot(15+n)$$
$$150+n=120+8cdot n$$
$$30=7cdot n$$
$$n = frac{30}{7}notinmathbb{Z}$$
You may continue from here. Note, a smart person using this method will notice some pattern that will make it even simpler to test (not requiring all the calculation, just a quick check that literally takes seconds) but I will not give a direct hint.
Explanation
When you add the same number to both numerator and denominator of a fraction, the fraction decreases. In other words if you consider how the fraction of age of Canada and your age changes over time it will decrease.
On the other hand the fraction can never go to $1$ (or below) since the numerator will always be obviously greater than denominator (in our case by 135).
In other words you have a finite set of possible resultant fractions (namely ${2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9}$) that are potentially the sought "next case". From those you're looking for the largest one, so test them one by one, starting with $9$ and going down until you have an integer result or your options are gone.
Remarks
- Once again - this is a brute force solution and should not be treated as preferred if you can understand using two variables. But if you can't, it's still doable.
- If you notice the relationship I mention above, I guess even testing situation where the initial fraction is 100 could be done.
- You may try solving an interesting opposite question - when was the last time when such situation occurred (i.e. Canadas age was a multiply of your age). If you think it over well, you may use both Servaes and my approaches to that as well. Especially try rationalising that my approach will again have a finite and easily predictable number of tests to be performed.
- A food for thoughts. Is there always a solution to the original question (with differently chosen ages)? Is there always a solution to the problem I state in remark 3?
- Can you think of other related questions that will use similar approach (either Servaes's elegant one or mine brute force) to find a solution?
Servaes answer is excellent but let me add few cents for those who can't really make out something from dual variables and other factors (I know some people have problem with such things).
There is also a brute force solution, requiring a bit of thinking and a bit of simple calculation (the larger is the $n$ i $n$-times larger the more difficult it becomes though so I really suggest you try understanding the accepted solution anyway).
It's enough to check if there is an integer solution to equation
$$frac{150+n}{15+n}=9$$
If no, proceed with 8, 7 and so on. If you get to 2 and still have no anwser then the answer is never.
So a quick brute force check will like that:
$$frac{150+n}{15+n}=9$$
$$150+n=9cdot(15+n)$$
$$150+n=135+9cdot n$$
$$15=8cdot n$$
$$n = frac{15}{8}notinmathbb{Z}$$
So we continue with $8$
$$frac{150+n}{15+n}=8$$
$$150+n=8cdot(15+n)$$
$$150+n=120+8cdot n$$
$$30=7cdot n$$
$$n = frac{30}{7}notinmathbb{Z}$$
You may continue from here. Note, a smart person using this method will notice some pattern that will make it even simpler to test (not requiring all the calculation, just a quick check that literally takes seconds) but I will not give a direct hint.
Explanation
When you add the same number to both numerator and denominator of a fraction, the fraction decreases. In other words if you consider how the fraction of age of Canada and your age changes over time it will decrease.
On the other hand the fraction can never go to $1$ (or below) since the numerator will always be obviously greater than denominator (in our case by 135).
In other words you have a finite set of possible resultant fractions (namely ${2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9}$) that are potentially the sought "next case". From those you're looking for the largest one, so test them one by one, starting with $9$ and going down until you have an integer result or your options are gone.
Remarks
- Once again - this is a brute force solution and should not be treated as preferred if you can understand using two variables. But if you can't, it's still doable.
- If you notice the relationship I mention above, I guess even testing situation where the initial fraction is 100 could be done.
- You may try solving an interesting opposite question - when was the last time when such situation occurred (i.e. Canadas age was a multiply of your age). If you think it over well, you may use both Servaes and my approaches to that as well. Especially try rationalising that my approach will again have a finite and easily predictable number of tests to be performed.
- A food for thoughts. Is there always a solution to the original question (with differently chosen ages)? Is there always a solution to the problem I state in remark 3?
- Can you think of other related questions that will use similar approach (either Servaes's elegant one or mine brute force) to find a solution?
answered 1 hour ago
Ister
2116
2116
add a comment |
add a comment |
Raymo111 is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
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For extra credit, consider that Canada turned 150 on July 1, 2017. If your birthday is after that date, 14+n is also a valid denominator, as you will be both age 14 and age 15 during the 12 months that Canada is 150 years old. Likewise, if your 15th birthday is before that date, 16+n is a valid denominator, since you will be 15 when Canada turns 150, but turn 16 before Canada turns 151.
– Nuclear Wang
5 hours ago
4
For the sake of aesthetic, please don't use $mathbb Z$ to denote an integer. It is the set of integers.
– Kemono Chen
5 hours ago
Why not just propose that edit directly? Took all of ten seconds.
– Nij
4 hours ago