What's the meaning of “you won't be a good fit”?
Does "fit" refer to soft skills? Or could it be as random as your accent, the way you look or something like that
And would you consider it a kiss of death when said by a potential employer You wont be a good fit ie we do not like you and there is no way you will work here.
job-search
edited 5 hours ago
That Brazilian Guy
10915
asked 8 hours ago
user311438
10815
New contributor
user311438 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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add a comment |
Does "fit" refer to soft skills? Or could it be as random as your accent, the way you look or something like that
And would you consider it a kiss of death when said by a potential employer You wont be a good fit ie we do not like you and there is no way you will work here.
job-search
edited 5 hours ago
That Brazilian Guy
10915
asked 8 hours ago
user311438
10815
New contributor
user311438 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
21
If this was said after an interview with the hiring manager, then it's time for you to move on and find another job.
– Joe Strazzere
8 hours ago
19
Welcome new user. It's just a polite way to say "You Did Not Get The Job." nothing more to it - there's no "deeper meaning".
– Fattie
7 hours ago
5
In some countries you cannot legally decline candidates for specific reasons (e.g. gender, age). If there is such a reason, then they will use a phrase like this.
– Sulthan
4 hours ago
Its the generic legally defensible way of saying "nope, your not going to get a job here".
– Mark Rogers
2 hours ago
add a comment |
Does "fit" refer to soft skills? Or could it be as random as your accent, the way you look or something like that
And would you consider it a kiss of death when said by a potential employer You wont be a good fit ie we do not like you and there is no way you will work here.
job-search
edited 5 hours ago
That Brazilian Guy
10915
asked 8 hours ago
user311438
10815
New contributor
user311438 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
Does "fit" refer to soft skills? Or could it be as random as your accent, the way you look or something like that
And would you consider it a kiss of death when said by a potential employer You wont be a good fit ie we do not like you and there is no way you will work here.
job-search
job-search
edited 5 hours ago
That Brazilian Guy
10915
asked 8 hours ago
user311438
10815
New contributor
user311438 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
edited 5 hours ago
That Brazilian Guy
10915
asked 8 hours ago
user311438
10815
New contributor
user311438 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
edited 5 hours ago
That Brazilian Guy
10915
edited 5 hours ago
That Brazilian Guy
10915
edited 5 hours ago
That Brazilian Guy
10915
10915
asked 8 hours ago
user311438
10815
New contributor
user311438 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
asked 8 hours ago
user311438
10815
asked 8 hours ago
user311438
10815
10815
New contributor
user311438 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
New contributor
user311438 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
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Check out our Code of Conduct.
21
If this was said after an interview with the hiring manager, then it's time for you to move on and find another job.
– Joe Strazzere
8 hours ago
19
Welcome new user. It's just a polite way to say "You Did Not Get The Job." nothing more to it - there's no "deeper meaning".
– Fattie
7 hours ago
5
In some countries you cannot legally decline candidates for specific reasons (e.g. gender, age). If there is such a reason, then they will use a phrase like this.
– Sulthan
4 hours ago
Its the generic legally defensible way of saying "nope, your not going to get a job here".
– Mark Rogers
2 hours ago
add a comment |
21
If this was said after an interview with the hiring manager, then it's time for you to move on and find another job.
– Joe Strazzere
8 hours ago
19
Welcome new user. It's just a polite way to say "You Did Not Get The Job." nothing more to it - there's no "deeper meaning".
– Fattie
7 hours ago
5
In some countries you cannot legally decline candidates for specific reasons (e.g. gender, age). If there is such a reason, then they will use a phrase like this.
– Sulthan
4 hours ago
Its the generic legally defensible way of saying "nope, your not going to get a job here".
– Mark Rogers
2 hours ago
21
21
If this was said after an interview with the hiring manager, then it's time for you to move on and find another job.
– Joe Strazzere
8 hours ago
If this was said after an interview with the hiring manager, then it's time for you to move on and find another job.
– Joe Strazzere
8 hours ago
19
19
Welcome new user. It's just a polite way to say "You Did Not Get The Job." nothing more to it - there's no "deeper meaning".
– Fattie
7 hours ago
Welcome new user. It's just a polite way to say "You Did Not Get The Job." nothing more to it - there's no "deeper meaning".
– Fattie
7 hours ago
5
5
In some countries you cannot legally decline candidates for specific reasons (e.g. gender, age). If there is such a reason, then they will use a phrase like this.
– Sulthan
4 hours ago
In some countries you cannot legally decline candidates for specific reasons (e.g. gender, age). If there is such a reason, then they will use a phrase like this.
– Sulthan
4 hours ago
Its the generic legally defensible way of saying "nope, your not going to get a job here".
– Mark Rogers
2 hours ago
Its the generic legally defensible way of saying "nope, your not going to get a job here".
– Mark Rogers
2 hours ago
add a comment |
5 Answers
5
active
oldest
votes
And would you consider it a kiss of death when said by a potential
employer
Yes. It translates into: "We're done considering you and the result was negative. No, we're not going to tell you exactly what was wrong. It might be your personality, what we think is your skill set, work ethic, communication skills, or whatever. We've had this conversation lots with others and our lawyers inform us that we can say this without legal exposure."
answered 8 hours ago
Dark Matter
2,753616
18
On the plus side, I've seen well qualified people that simply seemed like they wouldn't fit in. So it isn't always just a figure of speech. Which makes it easier to not worry too much about it and move on. And that's what you should probably do.
– bytepusher
8 hours ago
9
Indeed. It's a completely meaningless phrase, which means: absolutely, utterly nothing. It's exactly like getting a form letter.
– Fattie
7 hours ago
1
As employers we are obligated to ensure, as well as possible, that a new hire won't have an undue impact on the team they join, or on the working relationship of that team with clients - and, with some candidates, the lack of fit becomes painfully obvious. However, "lack of fit" does not mean "we won't tell you why" - we can be obligated by HR policy to give a specific explanation if asked. Giving such feedback, when policy requires it, is one of the more stressful parts of recruitment processes on the selection panels.
– Peter
5 hours ago
3
@Peter - HR might or might not want the phrase to be explained. My guess would be that HR would not want the phrase to be explained more. For example, HR surely wouldn't want a female candidate to be told that "We only want to hire a male," even though that may be true. The phrase purposely is non-descriptive and leaves the candidate with no indication if the reason is some bias or a deficiency.
– MaxW
1 hour ago
Say a well qualified data scientist come for an interview, the job offered has something to do with excel and the most technical things they would be expected to do is a chained SUMIF. Interviewer think the data scientist can do it, but that they will leave the team ASAP because the job is not challenging enough. They're not a good fit.
– Jylo
17 mins ago
add a comment |
I would consider it the kiss of death in an interview process.
Odds are you believe in something that is fundamentally opposed within the organization, or there is some other reason (one the company would prefer to keep unsaid to avoid bad press) which is being expressed but not voiced.
I'd try to mentally recall the entire interview. Who did the talking? When did the facial expressions change to indicate displeasure? What was said before that happened, and if that couldn't be misconstrued badly, how was it said?
It's not a sure-fire formula for figuring out where something went wrong. It's just a starting place, adjust it to fit your needs.
answered 8 hours ago
Edwin Buck
2,3151018
add a comment |
Adding a slightly different perspective: Fit is NOT an empty phrase but the single most important part of the hiring decision. The job of the interview team is to figure out whether the candidate is a "good fit" for the role. "Fit" breaks down into a bunch of different components
- Technical skills, stuff for the immediate role, adjacent and orthogonal skills.
- Experience, learning curve, time required to fill gaps
- General critical thinking, learning ability
- Cultural fit: communication style, management style, amount of hand holding required, personality, ego to skill ratio, etc.
- Career fit candidate: is that a logical step for the candidate or is she looking for something else and this is a stop gap
- Career fit employer: can we see a credible long term growth scenario for that person here.
- Family, personal stuff: relocation, commute, buy in from partner/family, etc.
- Money: do candidate goals and employer range overlap enough
Any single one of these being out of whack can mean "not a fit" and, yes, that is the end of this application.
In most cases "not a fit" is GOOD outcome. It simply represents the facts and hiring a person that's not a fit for any of the reasons above, just makes everyone miserable: colleagues, manager, and new hire tend to have a bad time and the final outcome is never good.
I understand, it's frustrating to receive the "no fit" answer without further details. However, if you keep your eyes and ears open during they interview process and go mentally through your own fit check list, you can typically tell what's happening and why. You may actually come to the same conclusion yourself.
answered 3 hours ago
Hilmar
25.2k66076
+1 for "ego to skill ratio"
– Harper
10 mins ago
add a comment |
Without further explanation, "You won't be a good fit" is as generic as it could be, and it is a kiss of death, unless you are assertive enough to ask questions (and persevere in doing so until you get answers).
As you have not much to lose anymore, you can take the risk to ask anything, like
- What would it take to fit in better?
- Do you see a mismatch with the function, the team or the company culture?
- Is there a different team or function in your company in which I would fit better?
- Do you know a company in your industry who's company culture would fit me better?
Beware you are in an exceptional position now: you do have access to a person who knows the industry. That person sees hem/herself as the one who turned you down and would be much happier to see hem/herself as the one who gave you advice.
Do both of you a favor and act now.
edited 3 hours ago
IDrinkandIKnowThings
44.4k15100190
answered 8 hours ago
Dirk Horsten
33336
I wouold welcome a comment explaining that downvote, so I could learn from it.
– Dirk Horsten
7 hours ago
4
I'm compelled to downvote too. There are things to lose and no, candidate cannot take the rist to ask anything. It is not professional and if the hiring manager answers some of these questions it might give enough grounds for a lawsuit as stated in other comments. The hiring manager won't be happier to give you advice, and your fourth bullet point might be misinterpreted as a referral. "both of you a favour[sic]?" I bet the hiring manager has a ton of other interviews/work to do besides doing free consulting for a failed candidate. I'm actually downvoting after writing my comment.
– Mindwin
7 hours ago
1
Thanks, but I keep trusting the advice from the outplacement consultants that coached me succesfully in 2001, 2003 and 2016.
– Dirk Horsten
6 hours ago
2
@DirkHorsten Maybe you should consider why you keep needing advice from outplacement consultants. (Hint: their basic objective is to earn money for themselves, not to find you a permanent job).
– alephzero
5 hours ago
2
I replaced the word Random with Generic. I suspect your answer will be better recieved now.
– IDrinkandIKnowThings
3 hours ago
|
show 2 more comments
I have used the "Good fit" line a few times. Sometimes it's a personality thing (very Type A, etc), sometimes I felt like the person was overqualified (and I risked having a bored developer) for the role with no likelihood of the requirements changing, etc. For one person, I knew his personality would be a complete clash with what the CEO was used to (loud, very opinionated, very blunt, very chatty, etc -- qualities (other than loud) I would have hired for if it was my company).
answered 3 hours ago
ajacian81
1092
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5 Answers
5
active
oldest
votes
5 Answers
5
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
And would you consider it a kiss of death when said by a potential
employer
Yes. It translates into: "We're done considering you and the result was negative. No, we're not going to tell you exactly what was wrong. It might be your personality, what we think is your skill set, work ethic, communication skills, or whatever. We've had this conversation lots with others and our lawyers inform us that we can say this without legal exposure."
answered 8 hours ago
Dark Matter
2,753616
18
On the plus side, I've seen well qualified people that simply seemed like they wouldn't fit in. So it isn't always just a figure of speech. Which makes it easier to not worry too much about it and move on. And that's what you should probably do.
– bytepusher
8 hours ago
9
Indeed. It's a completely meaningless phrase, which means: absolutely, utterly nothing. It's exactly like getting a form letter.
– Fattie
7 hours ago
1
As employers we are obligated to ensure, as well as possible, that a new hire won't have an undue impact on the team they join, or on the working relationship of that team with clients - and, with some candidates, the lack of fit becomes painfully obvious. However, "lack of fit" does not mean "we won't tell you why" - we can be obligated by HR policy to give a specific explanation if asked. Giving such feedback, when policy requires it, is one of the more stressful parts of recruitment processes on the selection panels.
– Peter
5 hours ago
3
@Peter - HR might or might not want the phrase to be explained. My guess would be that HR would not want the phrase to be explained more. For example, HR surely wouldn't want a female candidate to be told that "We only want to hire a male," even though that may be true. The phrase purposely is non-descriptive and leaves the candidate with no indication if the reason is some bias or a deficiency.
– MaxW
1 hour ago
Say a well qualified data scientist come for an interview, the job offered has something to do with excel and the most technical things they would be expected to do is a chained SUMIF. Interviewer think the data scientist can do it, but that they will leave the team ASAP because the job is not challenging enough. They're not a good fit.
– Jylo
17 mins ago
add a comment |
And would you consider it a kiss of death when said by a potential
employer
Yes. It translates into: "We're done considering you and the result was negative. No, we're not going to tell you exactly what was wrong. It might be your personality, what we think is your skill set, work ethic, communication skills, or whatever. We've had this conversation lots with others and our lawyers inform us that we can say this without legal exposure."
answered 8 hours ago
Dark Matter
2,753616
18
On the plus side, I've seen well qualified people that simply seemed like they wouldn't fit in. So it isn't always just a figure of speech. Which makes it easier to not worry too much about it and move on. And that's what you should probably do.
– bytepusher
8 hours ago
9
Indeed. It's a completely meaningless phrase, which means: absolutely, utterly nothing. It's exactly like getting a form letter.
– Fattie
7 hours ago
1
As employers we are obligated to ensure, as well as possible, that a new hire won't have an undue impact on the team they join, or on the working relationship of that team with clients - and, with some candidates, the lack of fit becomes painfully obvious. However, "lack of fit" does not mean "we won't tell you why" - we can be obligated by HR policy to give a specific explanation if asked. Giving such feedback, when policy requires it, is one of the more stressful parts of recruitment processes on the selection panels.
– Peter
5 hours ago
3
@Peter - HR might or might not want the phrase to be explained. My guess would be that HR would not want the phrase to be explained more. For example, HR surely wouldn't want a female candidate to be told that "We only want to hire a male," even though that may be true. The phrase purposely is non-descriptive and leaves the candidate with no indication if the reason is some bias or a deficiency.
– MaxW
1 hour ago
Say a well qualified data scientist come for an interview, the job offered has something to do with excel and the most technical things they would be expected to do is a chained SUMIF. Interviewer think the data scientist can do it, but that they will leave the team ASAP because the job is not challenging enough. They're not a good fit.
– Jylo
17 mins ago
add a comment |
And would you consider it a kiss of death when said by a potential
employer
Yes. It translates into: "We're done considering you and the result was negative. No, we're not going to tell you exactly what was wrong. It might be your personality, what we think is your skill set, work ethic, communication skills, or whatever. We've had this conversation lots with others and our lawyers inform us that we can say this without legal exposure."
answered 8 hours ago
Dark Matter
2,753616
And would you consider it a kiss of death when said by a potential
employer
Yes. It translates into: "We're done considering you and the result was negative. No, we're not going to tell you exactly what was wrong. It might be your personality, what we think is your skill set, work ethic, communication skills, or whatever. We've had this conversation lots with others and our lawyers inform us that we can say this without legal exposure."
answered 8 hours ago
Dark Matter
2,753616
answered 8 hours ago
Dark Matter
2,753616
answered 8 hours ago
Dark Matter
2,753616
answered 8 hours ago
Dark Matter
2,753616
2,753616
18
On the plus side, I've seen well qualified people that simply seemed like they wouldn't fit in. So it isn't always just a figure of speech. Which makes it easier to not worry too much about it and move on. And that's what you should probably do.
– bytepusher
8 hours ago
9
Indeed. It's a completely meaningless phrase, which means: absolutely, utterly nothing. It's exactly like getting a form letter.
– Fattie
7 hours ago
1
As employers we are obligated to ensure, as well as possible, that a new hire won't have an undue impact on the team they join, or on the working relationship of that team with clients - and, with some candidates, the lack of fit becomes painfully obvious. However, "lack of fit" does not mean "we won't tell you why" - we can be obligated by HR policy to give a specific explanation if asked. Giving such feedback, when policy requires it, is one of the more stressful parts of recruitment processes on the selection panels.
– Peter
5 hours ago
3
@Peter - HR might or might not want the phrase to be explained. My guess would be that HR would not want the phrase to be explained more. For example, HR surely wouldn't want a female candidate to be told that "We only want to hire a male," even though that may be true. The phrase purposely is non-descriptive and leaves the candidate with no indication if the reason is some bias or a deficiency.
– MaxW
1 hour ago
Say a well qualified data scientist come for an interview, the job offered has something to do with excel and the most technical things they would be expected to do is a chained SUMIF. Interviewer think the data scientist can do it, but that they will leave the team ASAP because the job is not challenging enough. They're not a good fit.
– Jylo
17 mins ago
add a comment |
18
On the plus side, I've seen well qualified people that simply seemed like they wouldn't fit in. So it isn't always just a figure of speech. Which makes it easier to not worry too much about it and move on. And that's what you should probably do.
– bytepusher
8 hours ago
9
Indeed. It's a completely meaningless phrase, which means: absolutely, utterly nothing. It's exactly like getting a form letter.
– Fattie
7 hours ago
1
As employers we are obligated to ensure, as well as possible, that a new hire won't have an undue impact on the team they join, or on the working relationship of that team with clients - and, with some candidates, the lack of fit becomes painfully obvious. However, "lack of fit" does not mean "we won't tell you why" - we can be obligated by HR policy to give a specific explanation if asked. Giving such feedback, when policy requires it, is one of the more stressful parts of recruitment processes on the selection panels.
– Peter
5 hours ago
3
@Peter - HR might or might not want the phrase to be explained. My guess would be that HR would not want the phrase to be explained more. For example, HR surely wouldn't want a female candidate to be told that "We only want to hire a male," even though that may be true. The phrase purposely is non-descriptive and leaves the candidate with no indication if the reason is some bias or a deficiency.
– MaxW
1 hour ago
Say a well qualified data scientist come for an interview, the job offered has something to do with excel and the most technical things they would be expected to do is a chained SUMIF. Interviewer think the data scientist can do it, but that they will leave the team ASAP because the job is not challenging enough. They're not a good fit.
– Jylo
17 mins ago
18
18
On the plus side, I've seen well qualified people that simply seemed like they wouldn't fit in. So it isn't always just a figure of speech. Which makes it easier to not worry too much about it and move on. And that's what you should probably do.
– bytepusher
8 hours ago
On the plus side, I've seen well qualified people that simply seemed like they wouldn't fit in. So it isn't always just a figure of speech. Which makes it easier to not worry too much about it and move on. And that's what you should probably do.
– bytepusher
8 hours ago
9
9
Indeed. It's a completely meaningless phrase, which means: absolutely, utterly nothing. It's exactly like getting a form letter.
– Fattie
7 hours ago
Indeed. It's a completely meaningless phrase, which means: absolutely, utterly nothing. It's exactly like getting a form letter.
– Fattie
7 hours ago
1
1
As employers we are obligated to ensure, as well as possible, that a new hire won't have an undue impact on the team they join, or on the working relationship of that team with clients - and, with some candidates, the lack of fit becomes painfully obvious. However, "lack of fit" does not mean "we won't tell you why" - we can be obligated by HR policy to give a specific explanation if asked. Giving such feedback, when policy requires it, is one of the more stressful parts of recruitment processes on the selection panels.
– Peter
5 hours ago
As employers we are obligated to ensure, as well as possible, that a new hire won't have an undue impact on the team they join, or on the working relationship of that team with clients - and, with some candidates, the lack of fit becomes painfully obvious. However, "lack of fit" does not mean "we won't tell you why" - we can be obligated by HR policy to give a specific explanation if asked. Giving such feedback, when policy requires it, is one of the more stressful parts of recruitment processes on the selection panels.
– Peter
5 hours ago
3
3
@Peter - HR might or might not want the phrase to be explained. My guess would be that HR would not want the phrase to be explained more. For example, HR surely wouldn't want a female candidate to be told that "We only want to hire a male," even though that may be true. The phrase purposely is non-descriptive and leaves the candidate with no indication if the reason is some bias or a deficiency.
– MaxW
1 hour ago
@Peter - HR might or might not want the phrase to be explained. My guess would be that HR would not want the phrase to be explained more. For example, HR surely wouldn't want a female candidate to be told that "We only want to hire a male," even though that may be true. The phrase purposely is non-descriptive and leaves the candidate with no indication if the reason is some bias or a deficiency.
– MaxW
1 hour ago
Say a well qualified data scientist come for an interview, the job offered has something to do with excel and the most technical things they would be expected to do is a chained SUMIF. Interviewer think the data scientist can do it, but that they will leave the team ASAP because the job is not challenging enough. They're not a good fit.
– Jylo
17 mins ago
Say a well qualified data scientist come for an interview, the job offered has something to do with excel and the most technical things they would be expected to do is a chained SUMIF. Interviewer think the data scientist can do it, but that they will leave the team ASAP because the job is not challenging enough. They're not a good fit.
– Jylo
17 mins ago
add a comment |
I would consider it the kiss of death in an interview process.
Odds are you believe in something that is fundamentally opposed within the organization, or there is some other reason (one the company would prefer to keep unsaid to avoid bad press) which is being expressed but not voiced.
I'd try to mentally recall the entire interview. Who did the talking? When did the facial expressions change to indicate displeasure? What was said before that happened, and if that couldn't be misconstrued badly, how was it said?
It's not a sure-fire formula for figuring out where something went wrong. It's just a starting place, adjust it to fit your needs.
answered 8 hours ago
Edwin Buck
2,3151018
add a comment |
I would consider it the kiss of death in an interview process.
Odds are you believe in something that is fundamentally opposed within the organization, or there is some other reason (one the company would prefer to keep unsaid to avoid bad press) which is being expressed but not voiced.
I'd try to mentally recall the entire interview. Who did the talking? When did the facial expressions change to indicate displeasure? What was said before that happened, and if that couldn't be misconstrued badly, how was it said?
It's not a sure-fire formula for figuring out where something went wrong. It's just a starting place, adjust it to fit your needs.
answered 8 hours ago
Edwin Buck
2,3151018
add a comment |
I would consider it the kiss of death in an interview process.
Odds are you believe in something that is fundamentally opposed within the organization, or there is some other reason (one the company would prefer to keep unsaid to avoid bad press) which is being expressed but not voiced.
I'd try to mentally recall the entire interview. Who did the talking? When did the facial expressions change to indicate displeasure? What was said before that happened, and if that couldn't be misconstrued badly, how was it said?
It's not a sure-fire formula for figuring out where something went wrong. It's just a starting place, adjust it to fit your needs.
answered 8 hours ago
Edwin Buck
2,3151018
I would consider it the kiss of death in an interview process.
Odds are you believe in something that is fundamentally opposed within the organization, or there is some other reason (one the company would prefer to keep unsaid to avoid bad press) which is being expressed but not voiced.
I'd try to mentally recall the entire interview. Who did the talking? When did the facial expressions change to indicate displeasure? What was said before that happened, and if that couldn't be misconstrued badly, how was it said?
It's not a sure-fire formula for figuring out where something went wrong. It's just a starting place, adjust it to fit your needs.
answered 8 hours ago
Edwin Buck
2,3151018
answered 8 hours ago
Edwin Buck
2,3151018
answered 8 hours ago
Edwin Buck
2,3151018
answered 8 hours ago
Edwin Buck
2,3151018
2,3151018
add a comment |
add a comment |
Adding a slightly different perspective: Fit is NOT an empty phrase but the single most important part of the hiring decision. The job of the interview team is to figure out whether the candidate is a "good fit" for the role. "Fit" breaks down into a bunch of different components
- Technical skills, stuff for the immediate role, adjacent and orthogonal skills.
- Experience, learning curve, time required to fill gaps
- General critical thinking, learning ability
- Cultural fit: communication style, management style, amount of hand holding required, personality, ego to skill ratio, etc.
- Career fit candidate: is that a logical step for the candidate or is she looking for something else and this is a stop gap
- Career fit employer: can we see a credible long term growth scenario for that person here.
- Family, personal stuff: relocation, commute, buy in from partner/family, etc.
- Money: do candidate goals and employer range overlap enough
Any single one of these being out of whack can mean "not a fit" and, yes, that is the end of this application.
In most cases "not a fit" is GOOD outcome. It simply represents the facts and hiring a person that's not a fit for any of the reasons above, just makes everyone miserable: colleagues, manager, and new hire tend to have a bad time and the final outcome is never good.
I understand, it's frustrating to receive the "no fit" answer without further details. However, if you keep your eyes and ears open during they interview process and go mentally through your own fit check list, you can typically tell what's happening and why. You may actually come to the same conclusion yourself.
answered 3 hours ago
Hilmar
25.2k66076
+1 for "ego to skill ratio"
– Harper
10 mins ago
add a comment |
Adding a slightly different perspective: Fit is NOT an empty phrase but the single most important part of the hiring decision. The job of the interview team is to figure out whether the candidate is a "good fit" for the role. "Fit" breaks down into a bunch of different components
- Technical skills, stuff for the immediate role, adjacent and orthogonal skills.
- Experience, learning curve, time required to fill gaps
- General critical thinking, learning ability
- Cultural fit: communication style, management style, amount of hand holding required, personality, ego to skill ratio, etc.
- Career fit candidate: is that a logical step for the candidate or is she looking for something else and this is a stop gap
- Career fit employer: can we see a credible long term growth scenario for that person here.
- Family, personal stuff: relocation, commute, buy in from partner/family, etc.
- Money: do candidate goals and employer range overlap enough
Any single one of these being out of whack can mean "not a fit" and, yes, that is the end of this application.
In most cases "not a fit" is GOOD outcome. It simply represents the facts and hiring a person that's not a fit for any of the reasons above, just makes everyone miserable: colleagues, manager, and new hire tend to have a bad time and the final outcome is never good.
I understand, it's frustrating to receive the "no fit" answer without further details. However, if you keep your eyes and ears open during they interview process and go mentally through your own fit check list, you can typically tell what's happening and why. You may actually come to the same conclusion yourself.
answered 3 hours ago
Hilmar
25.2k66076
+1 for "ego to skill ratio"
– Harper
10 mins ago
add a comment |
Adding a slightly different perspective: Fit is NOT an empty phrase but the single most important part of the hiring decision. The job of the interview team is to figure out whether the candidate is a "good fit" for the role. "Fit" breaks down into a bunch of different components
- Technical skills, stuff for the immediate role, adjacent and orthogonal skills.
- Experience, learning curve, time required to fill gaps
- General critical thinking, learning ability
- Cultural fit: communication style, management style, amount of hand holding required, personality, ego to skill ratio, etc.
- Career fit candidate: is that a logical step for the candidate or is she looking for something else and this is a stop gap
- Career fit employer: can we see a credible long term growth scenario for that person here.
- Family, personal stuff: relocation, commute, buy in from partner/family, etc.
- Money: do candidate goals and employer range overlap enough
Any single one of these being out of whack can mean "not a fit" and, yes, that is the end of this application.
In most cases "not a fit" is GOOD outcome. It simply represents the facts and hiring a person that's not a fit for any of the reasons above, just makes everyone miserable: colleagues, manager, and new hire tend to have a bad time and the final outcome is never good.
I understand, it's frustrating to receive the "no fit" answer without further details. However, if you keep your eyes and ears open during they interview process and go mentally through your own fit check list, you can typically tell what's happening and why. You may actually come to the same conclusion yourself.
answered 3 hours ago
Hilmar
25.2k66076
Adding a slightly different perspective: Fit is NOT an empty phrase but the single most important part of the hiring decision. The job of the interview team is to figure out whether the candidate is a "good fit" for the role. "Fit" breaks down into a bunch of different components
- Technical skills, stuff for the immediate role, adjacent and orthogonal skills.
- Experience, learning curve, time required to fill gaps
- General critical thinking, learning ability
- Cultural fit: communication style, management style, amount of hand holding required, personality, ego to skill ratio, etc.
- Career fit candidate: is that a logical step for the candidate or is she looking for something else and this is a stop gap
- Career fit employer: can we see a credible long term growth scenario for that person here.
- Family, personal stuff: relocation, commute, buy in from partner/family, etc.
- Money: do candidate goals and employer range overlap enough
Any single one of these being out of whack can mean "not a fit" and, yes, that is the end of this application.
In most cases "not a fit" is GOOD outcome. It simply represents the facts and hiring a person that's not a fit for any of the reasons above, just makes everyone miserable: colleagues, manager, and new hire tend to have a bad time and the final outcome is never good.
I understand, it's frustrating to receive the "no fit" answer without further details. However, if you keep your eyes and ears open during they interview process and go mentally through your own fit check list, you can typically tell what's happening and why. You may actually come to the same conclusion yourself.
answered 3 hours ago
Hilmar
25.2k66076
answered 3 hours ago
Hilmar
25.2k66076
answered 3 hours ago
Hilmar
25.2k66076
answered 3 hours ago
Hilmar
25.2k66076
25.2k66076
+1 for "ego to skill ratio"
– Harper
10 mins ago
add a comment |
+1 for "ego to skill ratio"
– Harper
10 mins ago
+1 for "ego to skill ratio"
– Harper
10 mins ago
+1 for "ego to skill ratio"
– Harper
10 mins ago
add a comment |
Without further explanation, "You won't be a good fit" is as generic as it could be, and it is a kiss of death, unless you are assertive enough to ask questions (and persevere in doing so until you get answers).
As you have not much to lose anymore, you can take the risk to ask anything, like
- What would it take to fit in better?
- Do you see a mismatch with the function, the team or the company culture?
- Is there a different team or function in your company in which I would fit better?
- Do you know a company in your industry who's company culture would fit me better?
Beware you are in an exceptional position now: you do have access to a person who knows the industry. That person sees hem/herself as the one who turned you down and would be much happier to see hem/herself as the one who gave you advice.
Do both of you a favor and act now.
edited 3 hours ago
IDrinkandIKnowThings
44.4k15100190
answered 8 hours ago
Dirk Horsten
33336
I wouold welcome a comment explaining that downvote, so I could learn from it.
– Dirk Horsten
7 hours ago
4
I'm compelled to downvote too. There are things to lose and no, candidate cannot take the rist to ask anything. It is not professional and if the hiring manager answers some of these questions it might give enough grounds for a lawsuit as stated in other comments. The hiring manager won't be happier to give you advice, and your fourth bullet point might be misinterpreted as a referral. "both of you a favour[sic]?" I bet the hiring manager has a ton of other interviews/work to do besides doing free consulting for a failed candidate. I'm actually downvoting after writing my comment.
– Mindwin
7 hours ago
1
Thanks, but I keep trusting the advice from the outplacement consultants that coached me succesfully in 2001, 2003 and 2016.
– Dirk Horsten
6 hours ago
2
@DirkHorsten Maybe you should consider why you keep needing advice from outplacement consultants. (Hint: their basic objective is to earn money for themselves, not to find you a permanent job).
– alephzero
5 hours ago
2
I replaced the word Random with Generic. I suspect your answer will be better recieved now.
– IDrinkandIKnowThings
3 hours ago
|
show 2 more comments
Without further explanation, "You won't be a good fit" is as generic as it could be, and it is a kiss of death, unless you are assertive enough to ask questions (and persevere in doing so until you get answers).
As you have not much to lose anymore, you can take the risk to ask anything, like
- What would it take to fit in better?
- Do you see a mismatch with the function, the team or the company culture?
- Is there a different team or function in your company in which I would fit better?
- Do you know a company in your industry who's company culture would fit me better?
Beware you are in an exceptional position now: you do have access to a person who knows the industry. That person sees hem/herself as the one who turned you down and would be much happier to see hem/herself as the one who gave you advice.
Do both of you a favor and act now.
edited 3 hours ago
IDrinkandIKnowThings
44.4k15100190
answered 8 hours ago
Dirk Horsten
33336
I wouold welcome a comment explaining that downvote, so I could learn from it.
– Dirk Horsten
7 hours ago
4
I'm compelled to downvote too. There are things to lose and no, candidate cannot take the rist to ask anything. It is not professional and if the hiring manager answers some of these questions it might give enough grounds for a lawsuit as stated in other comments. The hiring manager won't be happier to give you advice, and your fourth bullet point might be misinterpreted as a referral. "both of you a favour[sic]?" I bet the hiring manager has a ton of other interviews/work to do besides doing free consulting for a failed candidate. I'm actually downvoting after writing my comment.
– Mindwin
7 hours ago
1
Thanks, but I keep trusting the advice from the outplacement consultants that coached me succesfully in 2001, 2003 and 2016.
– Dirk Horsten
6 hours ago
2
@DirkHorsten Maybe you should consider why you keep needing advice from outplacement consultants. (Hint: their basic objective is to earn money for themselves, not to find you a permanent job).
– alephzero
5 hours ago
2
I replaced the word Random with Generic. I suspect your answer will be better recieved now.
– IDrinkandIKnowThings
3 hours ago
|
show 2 more comments
Without further explanation, "You won't be a good fit" is as generic as it could be, and it is a kiss of death, unless you are assertive enough to ask questions (and persevere in doing so until you get answers).
As you have not much to lose anymore, you can take the risk to ask anything, like
- What would it take to fit in better?
- Do you see a mismatch with the function, the team or the company culture?
- Is there a different team or function in your company in which I would fit better?
- Do you know a company in your industry who's company culture would fit me better?
Beware you are in an exceptional position now: you do have access to a person who knows the industry. That person sees hem/herself as the one who turned you down and would be much happier to see hem/herself as the one who gave you advice.
Do both of you a favor and act now.
edited 3 hours ago
IDrinkandIKnowThings
44.4k15100190
answered 8 hours ago
Dirk Horsten
33336
Without further explanation, "You won't be a good fit" is as generic as it could be, and it is a kiss of death, unless you are assertive enough to ask questions (and persevere in doing so until you get answers).
As you have not much to lose anymore, you can take the risk to ask anything, like
- What would it take to fit in better?
- Do you see a mismatch with the function, the team or the company culture?
- Is there a different team or function in your company in which I would fit better?
- Do you know a company in your industry who's company culture would fit me better?
Beware you are in an exceptional position now: you do have access to a person who knows the industry. That person sees hem/herself as the one who turned you down and would be much happier to see hem/herself as the one who gave you advice.
Do both of you a favor and act now.
edited 3 hours ago
IDrinkandIKnowThings
44.4k15100190
answered 8 hours ago
Dirk Horsten
33336
edited 3 hours ago
IDrinkandIKnowThings
44.4k15100190
edited 3 hours ago
IDrinkandIKnowThings
44.4k15100190
edited 3 hours ago
IDrinkandIKnowThings
44.4k15100190
44.4k15100190
answered 8 hours ago
Dirk Horsten
33336
answered 8 hours ago
Dirk Horsten
33336
answered 8 hours ago
Dirk Horsten
33336
33336
I wouold welcome a comment explaining that downvote, so I could learn from it.
– Dirk Horsten
7 hours ago
4
I'm compelled to downvote too. There are things to lose and no, candidate cannot take the rist to ask anything. It is not professional and if the hiring manager answers some of these questions it might give enough grounds for a lawsuit as stated in other comments. The hiring manager won't be happier to give you advice, and your fourth bullet point might be misinterpreted as a referral. "both of you a favour[sic]?" I bet the hiring manager has a ton of other interviews/work to do besides doing free consulting for a failed candidate. I'm actually downvoting after writing my comment.
– Mindwin
7 hours ago
1
Thanks, but I keep trusting the advice from the outplacement consultants that coached me succesfully in 2001, 2003 and 2016.
– Dirk Horsten
6 hours ago
2
@DirkHorsten Maybe you should consider why you keep needing advice from outplacement consultants. (Hint: their basic objective is to earn money for themselves, not to find you a permanent job).
– alephzero
5 hours ago
2
I replaced the word Random with Generic. I suspect your answer will be better recieved now.
– IDrinkandIKnowThings
3 hours ago
|
show 2 more comments
I wouold welcome a comment explaining that downvote, so I could learn from it.
– Dirk Horsten
7 hours ago
4
I'm compelled to downvote too. There are things to lose and no, candidate cannot take the rist to ask anything. It is not professional and if the hiring manager answers some of these questions it might give enough grounds for a lawsuit as stated in other comments. The hiring manager won't be happier to give you advice, and your fourth bullet point might be misinterpreted as a referral. "both of you a favour[sic]?" I bet the hiring manager has a ton of other interviews/work to do besides doing free consulting for a failed candidate. I'm actually downvoting after writing my comment.
– Mindwin
7 hours ago
1
Thanks, but I keep trusting the advice from the outplacement consultants that coached me succesfully in 2001, 2003 and 2016.
– Dirk Horsten
6 hours ago
2
@DirkHorsten Maybe you should consider why you keep needing advice from outplacement consultants. (Hint: their basic objective is to earn money for themselves, not to find you a permanent job).
– alephzero
5 hours ago
2
I replaced the word Random with Generic. I suspect your answer will be better recieved now.
– IDrinkandIKnowThings
3 hours ago
I wouold welcome a comment explaining that downvote, so I could learn from it.
– Dirk Horsten
7 hours ago
I wouold welcome a comment explaining that downvote, so I could learn from it.
– Dirk Horsten
7 hours ago
4
4
I'm compelled to downvote too. There are things to lose and no, candidate cannot take the rist to ask anything. It is not professional and if the hiring manager answers some of these questions it might give enough grounds for a lawsuit as stated in other comments. The hiring manager won't be happier to give you advice, and your fourth bullet point might be misinterpreted as a referral. "both of you a favour[sic]?" I bet the hiring manager has a ton of other interviews/work to do besides doing free consulting for a failed candidate. I'm actually downvoting after writing my comment.
– Mindwin
7 hours ago
I'm compelled to downvote too. There are things to lose and no, candidate cannot take the rist to ask anything. It is not professional and if the hiring manager answers some of these questions it might give enough grounds for a lawsuit as stated in other comments. The hiring manager won't be happier to give you advice, and your fourth bullet point might be misinterpreted as a referral. "both of you a favour[sic]?" I bet the hiring manager has a ton of other interviews/work to do besides doing free consulting for a failed candidate. I'm actually downvoting after writing my comment.
– Mindwin
7 hours ago
1
1
Thanks, but I keep trusting the advice from the outplacement consultants that coached me succesfully in 2001, 2003 and 2016.
– Dirk Horsten
6 hours ago
Thanks, but I keep trusting the advice from the outplacement consultants that coached me succesfully in 2001, 2003 and 2016.
– Dirk Horsten
6 hours ago
2
2
@DirkHorsten Maybe you should consider why you keep needing advice from outplacement consultants. (Hint: their basic objective is to earn money for themselves, not to find you a permanent job).
– alephzero
5 hours ago
@DirkHorsten Maybe you should consider why you keep needing advice from outplacement consultants. (Hint: their basic objective is to earn money for themselves, not to find you a permanent job).
– alephzero
5 hours ago
2
2
I replaced the word Random with Generic. I suspect your answer will be better recieved now.
– IDrinkandIKnowThings
3 hours ago
I replaced the word Random with Generic. I suspect your answer will be better recieved now.
– IDrinkandIKnowThings
3 hours ago
|
show 2 more comments
I have used the "Good fit" line a few times. Sometimes it's a personality thing (very Type A, etc), sometimes I felt like the person was overqualified (and I risked having a bored developer) for the role with no likelihood of the requirements changing, etc. For one person, I knew his personality would be a complete clash with what the CEO was used to (loud, very opinionated, very blunt, very chatty, etc -- qualities (other than loud) I would have hired for if it was my company).
answered 3 hours ago
ajacian81
1092
New contributor
ajacian81 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
add a comment |
I have used the "Good fit" line a few times. Sometimes it's a personality thing (very Type A, etc), sometimes I felt like the person was overqualified (and I risked having a bored developer) for the role with no likelihood of the requirements changing, etc. For one person, I knew his personality would be a complete clash with what the CEO was used to (loud, very opinionated, very blunt, very chatty, etc -- qualities (other than loud) I would have hired for if it was my company).
answered 3 hours ago
ajacian81
1092
New contributor
ajacian81 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
add a comment |
I have used the "Good fit" line a few times. Sometimes it's a personality thing (very Type A, etc), sometimes I felt like the person was overqualified (and I risked having a bored developer) for the role with no likelihood of the requirements changing, etc. For one person, I knew his personality would be a complete clash with what the CEO was used to (loud, very opinionated, very blunt, very chatty, etc -- qualities (other than loud) I would have hired for if it was my company).
answered 3 hours ago
ajacian81
1092
New contributor
ajacian81 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
I have used the "Good fit" line a few times. Sometimes it's a personality thing (very Type A, etc), sometimes I felt like the person was overqualified (and I risked having a bored developer) for the role with no likelihood of the requirements changing, etc. For one person, I knew his personality would be a complete clash with what the CEO was used to (loud, very opinionated, very blunt, very chatty, etc -- qualities (other than loud) I would have hired for if it was my company).
answered 3 hours ago
ajacian81
1092
New contributor
ajacian81 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
answered 3 hours ago
ajacian81
1092
New contributor
ajacian81 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
answered 3 hours ago
ajacian81
1092
answered 3 hours ago
ajacian81
1092
1092
New contributor
ajacian81 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
New contributor
ajacian81 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
ajacian81 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
add a comment |
add a comment |
user311438 is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
user311438 is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
user311438 is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
user311438 is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
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21
If this was said after an interview with the hiring manager, then it's time for you to move on and find another job.
– Joe Strazzere
8 hours ago
19
Welcome new user. It's just a polite way to say "You Did Not Get The Job." nothing more to it - there's no "deeper meaning".
– Fattie
7 hours ago
5
In some countries you cannot legally decline candidates for specific reasons (e.g. gender, age). If there is such a reason, then they will use a phrase like this.
– Sulthan
4 hours ago
Its the generic legally defensible way of saying "nope, your not going to get a job here".
– Mark Rogers
2 hours ago