Regarding the ending of Asimov's the Second Foundation











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At the end of the last book of the Foundation trilogy, we discover




that the Second Foundation is in Trantor.




This is said to be "Star's End".



Was there any previous mention of the place in a way that associated it with "Star's End"? Or was the mention only in the end of the third book?










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  • I haven't read the trilogy in a long while, but isn't Star's End supposed to be another planet? Not saying which to avoid spoilers.
    – Sava
    5 hours ago















up vote
3
down vote

favorite












At the end of the last book of the Foundation trilogy, we discover




that the Second Foundation is in Trantor.




This is said to be "Star's End".



Was there any previous mention of the place in a way that associated it with "Star's End"? Or was the mention only in the end of the third book?










share|improve this question









New contributor




josinalvo is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.




















  • I haven't read the trilogy in a long while, but isn't Star's End supposed to be another planet? Not saying which to avoid spoilers.
    – Sava
    5 hours ago













up vote
3
down vote

favorite









up vote
3
down vote

favorite











At the end of the last book of the Foundation trilogy, we discover




that the Second Foundation is in Trantor.




This is said to be "Star's End".



Was there any previous mention of the place in a way that associated it with "Star's End"? Or was the mention only in the end of the third book?










share|improve this question









New contributor




josinalvo is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.











At the end of the last book of the Foundation trilogy, we discover




that the Second Foundation is in Trantor.




This is said to be "Star's End".



Was there any previous mention of the place in a way that associated it with "Star's End"? Or was the mention only in the end of the third book?







foundation






share|improve this question









New contributor




josinalvo is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.











share|improve this question









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josinalvo is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.









share|improve this question




share|improve this question








edited 2 hours ago





















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asked 5 hours ago









josinalvo

1163




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josinalvo is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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josinalvo is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.






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Check out our Code of Conduct.












  • I haven't read the trilogy in a long while, but isn't Star's End supposed to be another planet? Not saying which to avoid spoilers.
    – Sava
    5 hours ago


















  • I haven't read the trilogy in a long while, but isn't Star's End supposed to be another planet? Not saying which to avoid spoilers.
    – Sava
    5 hours ago
















I haven't read the trilogy in a long while, but isn't Star's End supposed to be another planet? Not saying which to avoid spoilers.
– Sava
5 hours ago




I haven't read the trilogy in a long while, but isn't Star's End supposed to be another planet? Not saying which to avoid spoilers.
– Sava
5 hours ago










1 Answer
1






active

oldest

votes

















up vote
8
down vote













What "actually" happened is that the First Foundation concluded that the Second Foundation was located on Terminus. One of the main bits of evidence leading to this conclusion is an enigmatic comment by Hari Seldon that he founded another Foundation (other than "Encyclopedia Galactica Publishing Foundation #1") at "Star's End". No one knows what "Star's End" is (in the book there's a visit to a planet named "Tazenda" on the theory it's a corrupted form of "Star's End"), but Arkady Darrell realizes that the Galaxy's rim (where Terminus is located) is a circle and "circles have no end." So "Star's End" is right at the start.



This deductive leap is proven correct when a nest of Second Foundationers is discovered on Terminus.



Except that it isn't correct. Hari Seldon was speaking as a sociologist, not a geometer and "Star's End" is the opposite social end of the Galaxy from Terminus: Trantor. And Preem Palver, a farmer from Trantor, is revealed as the First Speaker of the Second Foundation having sacrificed fifty members of the Second Foundation to fool the First that it had found and destroyed the Second.



"Star's End" as the location of the Second Foundation is first mentioned at the end of the very first Foundation story which later appeared as Part 1 "The Phychohistorians" in //Foundation//, the fix-up novel.




Seldon said, "...a scientific refuge will be established on Terminus. And another will be established at the other end of the Galaxy, let us say," and he smiled, "at Star's End."




Later at the end of Foundation and Empire, Part 1 there's a conversation:




"Then," said Forell, "there are no more enemies."



Barr was thoughtful. "There's a Second Foundation."



"At the other end of the Galaxy? Not for centuries."




Then in "Part 2: The Mule" a character says:




"I know that. Toran and Bayta are leaving with you for that very reason. And, Ebling, there's another, greater purpose. Hari Seldon founded two Foundations three centuries ago; one at each end of the Galaxy. You must find that Second Foundation."




There's a lot more discussion about the Second Foundation's location, but it all seems to be elaborations of this basic information.






share|improve this answer























  • sorry, i wrote the name of the planet wrong. I mean to ask, was there some poem, some text, some hint of the fact, that trantor was usually called stars end, before the very last chapter?
    – josinalvo
    2 hours ago






  • 1




    I don't think it was usually called "Stars end". I seem to recall them looking pretty hard for something called "star's end" (and as this answer says they "considered "Tazenda" on the theory it's a corrupted form of "Star's End""). The name and location was pretty much a riddle by Hari Seldon that I suspect was never intended to be answered (or possibly only answered by somebody of the right mindset). I think Mark has pretty much given all the relevant references to "Star's end" by the end of Second foundation (though I think later books had some different ways of looking at it).
    – Chris
    1 hour ago










  • To clarify: the sentence "circles have no end" is really about the phrase "the other end of the Galaxy", not about the name "Star's End". (I think you probably realize this already, but this answer makes it sound otherwise.)
    – ruakh
    1 hour ago











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1 Answer
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1 Answer
1






active

oldest

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active

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active

oldest

votes








up vote
8
down vote













What "actually" happened is that the First Foundation concluded that the Second Foundation was located on Terminus. One of the main bits of evidence leading to this conclusion is an enigmatic comment by Hari Seldon that he founded another Foundation (other than "Encyclopedia Galactica Publishing Foundation #1") at "Star's End". No one knows what "Star's End" is (in the book there's a visit to a planet named "Tazenda" on the theory it's a corrupted form of "Star's End"), but Arkady Darrell realizes that the Galaxy's rim (where Terminus is located) is a circle and "circles have no end." So "Star's End" is right at the start.



This deductive leap is proven correct when a nest of Second Foundationers is discovered on Terminus.



Except that it isn't correct. Hari Seldon was speaking as a sociologist, not a geometer and "Star's End" is the opposite social end of the Galaxy from Terminus: Trantor. And Preem Palver, a farmer from Trantor, is revealed as the First Speaker of the Second Foundation having sacrificed fifty members of the Second Foundation to fool the First that it had found and destroyed the Second.



"Star's End" as the location of the Second Foundation is first mentioned at the end of the very first Foundation story which later appeared as Part 1 "The Phychohistorians" in //Foundation//, the fix-up novel.




Seldon said, "...a scientific refuge will be established on Terminus. And another will be established at the other end of the Galaxy, let us say," and he smiled, "at Star's End."




Later at the end of Foundation and Empire, Part 1 there's a conversation:




"Then," said Forell, "there are no more enemies."



Barr was thoughtful. "There's a Second Foundation."



"At the other end of the Galaxy? Not for centuries."




Then in "Part 2: The Mule" a character says:




"I know that. Toran and Bayta are leaving with you for that very reason. And, Ebling, there's another, greater purpose. Hari Seldon founded two Foundations three centuries ago; one at each end of the Galaxy. You must find that Second Foundation."




There's a lot more discussion about the Second Foundation's location, but it all seems to be elaborations of this basic information.






share|improve this answer























  • sorry, i wrote the name of the planet wrong. I mean to ask, was there some poem, some text, some hint of the fact, that trantor was usually called stars end, before the very last chapter?
    – josinalvo
    2 hours ago






  • 1




    I don't think it was usually called "Stars end". I seem to recall them looking pretty hard for something called "star's end" (and as this answer says they "considered "Tazenda" on the theory it's a corrupted form of "Star's End""). The name and location was pretty much a riddle by Hari Seldon that I suspect was never intended to be answered (or possibly only answered by somebody of the right mindset). I think Mark has pretty much given all the relevant references to "Star's end" by the end of Second foundation (though I think later books had some different ways of looking at it).
    – Chris
    1 hour ago










  • To clarify: the sentence "circles have no end" is really about the phrase "the other end of the Galaxy", not about the name "Star's End". (I think you probably realize this already, but this answer makes it sound otherwise.)
    – ruakh
    1 hour ago















up vote
8
down vote













What "actually" happened is that the First Foundation concluded that the Second Foundation was located on Terminus. One of the main bits of evidence leading to this conclusion is an enigmatic comment by Hari Seldon that he founded another Foundation (other than "Encyclopedia Galactica Publishing Foundation #1") at "Star's End". No one knows what "Star's End" is (in the book there's a visit to a planet named "Tazenda" on the theory it's a corrupted form of "Star's End"), but Arkady Darrell realizes that the Galaxy's rim (where Terminus is located) is a circle and "circles have no end." So "Star's End" is right at the start.



This deductive leap is proven correct when a nest of Second Foundationers is discovered on Terminus.



Except that it isn't correct. Hari Seldon was speaking as a sociologist, not a geometer and "Star's End" is the opposite social end of the Galaxy from Terminus: Trantor. And Preem Palver, a farmer from Trantor, is revealed as the First Speaker of the Second Foundation having sacrificed fifty members of the Second Foundation to fool the First that it had found and destroyed the Second.



"Star's End" as the location of the Second Foundation is first mentioned at the end of the very first Foundation story which later appeared as Part 1 "The Phychohistorians" in //Foundation//, the fix-up novel.




Seldon said, "...a scientific refuge will be established on Terminus. And another will be established at the other end of the Galaxy, let us say," and he smiled, "at Star's End."




Later at the end of Foundation and Empire, Part 1 there's a conversation:




"Then," said Forell, "there are no more enemies."



Barr was thoughtful. "There's a Second Foundation."



"At the other end of the Galaxy? Not for centuries."




Then in "Part 2: The Mule" a character says:




"I know that. Toran and Bayta are leaving with you for that very reason. And, Ebling, there's another, greater purpose. Hari Seldon founded two Foundations three centuries ago; one at each end of the Galaxy. You must find that Second Foundation."




There's a lot more discussion about the Second Foundation's location, but it all seems to be elaborations of this basic information.






share|improve this answer























  • sorry, i wrote the name of the planet wrong. I mean to ask, was there some poem, some text, some hint of the fact, that trantor was usually called stars end, before the very last chapter?
    – josinalvo
    2 hours ago






  • 1




    I don't think it was usually called "Stars end". I seem to recall them looking pretty hard for something called "star's end" (and as this answer says they "considered "Tazenda" on the theory it's a corrupted form of "Star's End""). The name and location was pretty much a riddle by Hari Seldon that I suspect was never intended to be answered (or possibly only answered by somebody of the right mindset). I think Mark has pretty much given all the relevant references to "Star's end" by the end of Second foundation (though I think later books had some different ways of looking at it).
    – Chris
    1 hour ago










  • To clarify: the sentence "circles have no end" is really about the phrase "the other end of the Galaxy", not about the name "Star's End". (I think you probably realize this already, but this answer makes it sound otherwise.)
    – ruakh
    1 hour ago













up vote
8
down vote










up vote
8
down vote









What "actually" happened is that the First Foundation concluded that the Second Foundation was located on Terminus. One of the main bits of evidence leading to this conclusion is an enigmatic comment by Hari Seldon that he founded another Foundation (other than "Encyclopedia Galactica Publishing Foundation #1") at "Star's End". No one knows what "Star's End" is (in the book there's a visit to a planet named "Tazenda" on the theory it's a corrupted form of "Star's End"), but Arkady Darrell realizes that the Galaxy's rim (where Terminus is located) is a circle and "circles have no end." So "Star's End" is right at the start.



This deductive leap is proven correct when a nest of Second Foundationers is discovered on Terminus.



Except that it isn't correct. Hari Seldon was speaking as a sociologist, not a geometer and "Star's End" is the opposite social end of the Galaxy from Terminus: Trantor. And Preem Palver, a farmer from Trantor, is revealed as the First Speaker of the Second Foundation having sacrificed fifty members of the Second Foundation to fool the First that it had found and destroyed the Second.



"Star's End" as the location of the Second Foundation is first mentioned at the end of the very first Foundation story which later appeared as Part 1 "The Phychohistorians" in //Foundation//, the fix-up novel.




Seldon said, "...a scientific refuge will be established on Terminus. And another will be established at the other end of the Galaxy, let us say," and he smiled, "at Star's End."




Later at the end of Foundation and Empire, Part 1 there's a conversation:




"Then," said Forell, "there are no more enemies."



Barr was thoughtful. "There's a Second Foundation."



"At the other end of the Galaxy? Not for centuries."




Then in "Part 2: The Mule" a character says:




"I know that. Toran and Bayta are leaving with you for that very reason. And, Ebling, there's another, greater purpose. Hari Seldon founded two Foundations three centuries ago; one at each end of the Galaxy. You must find that Second Foundation."




There's a lot more discussion about the Second Foundation's location, but it all seems to be elaborations of this basic information.






share|improve this answer














What "actually" happened is that the First Foundation concluded that the Second Foundation was located on Terminus. One of the main bits of evidence leading to this conclusion is an enigmatic comment by Hari Seldon that he founded another Foundation (other than "Encyclopedia Galactica Publishing Foundation #1") at "Star's End". No one knows what "Star's End" is (in the book there's a visit to a planet named "Tazenda" on the theory it's a corrupted form of "Star's End"), but Arkady Darrell realizes that the Galaxy's rim (where Terminus is located) is a circle and "circles have no end." So "Star's End" is right at the start.



This deductive leap is proven correct when a nest of Second Foundationers is discovered on Terminus.



Except that it isn't correct. Hari Seldon was speaking as a sociologist, not a geometer and "Star's End" is the opposite social end of the Galaxy from Terminus: Trantor. And Preem Palver, a farmer from Trantor, is revealed as the First Speaker of the Second Foundation having sacrificed fifty members of the Second Foundation to fool the First that it had found and destroyed the Second.



"Star's End" as the location of the Second Foundation is first mentioned at the end of the very first Foundation story which later appeared as Part 1 "The Phychohistorians" in //Foundation//, the fix-up novel.




Seldon said, "...a scientific refuge will be established on Terminus. And another will be established at the other end of the Galaxy, let us say," and he smiled, "at Star's End."




Later at the end of Foundation and Empire, Part 1 there's a conversation:




"Then," said Forell, "there are no more enemies."



Barr was thoughtful. "There's a Second Foundation."



"At the other end of the Galaxy? Not for centuries."




Then in "Part 2: The Mule" a character says:




"I know that. Toran and Bayta are leaving with you for that very reason. And, Ebling, there's another, greater purpose. Hari Seldon founded two Foundations three centuries ago; one at each end of the Galaxy. You must find that Second Foundation."




There's a lot more discussion about the Second Foundation's location, but it all seems to be elaborations of this basic information.







share|improve this answer














share|improve this answer



share|improve this answer








edited 4 hours ago

























answered 5 hours ago









Mark Olson

11.7k24170




11.7k24170












  • sorry, i wrote the name of the planet wrong. I mean to ask, was there some poem, some text, some hint of the fact, that trantor was usually called stars end, before the very last chapter?
    – josinalvo
    2 hours ago






  • 1




    I don't think it was usually called "Stars end". I seem to recall them looking pretty hard for something called "star's end" (and as this answer says they "considered "Tazenda" on the theory it's a corrupted form of "Star's End""). The name and location was pretty much a riddle by Hari Seldon that I suspect was never intended to be answered (or possibly only answered by somebody of the right mindset). I think Mark has pretty much given all the relevant references to "Star's end" by the end of Second foundation (though I think later books had some different ways of looking at it).
    – Chris
    1 hour ago










  • To clarify: the sentence "circles have no end" is really about the phrase "the other end of the Galaxy", not about the name "Star's End". (I think you probably realize this already, but this answer makes it sound otherwise.)
    – ruakh
    1 hour ago


















  • sorry, i wrote the name of the planet wrong. I mean to ask, was there some poem, some text, some hint of the fact, that trantor was usually called stars end, before the very last chapter?
    – josinalvo
    2 hours ago






  • 1




    I don't think it was usually called "Stars end". I seem to recall them looking pretty hard for something called "star's end" (and as this answer says they "considered "Tazenda" on the theory it's a corrupted form of "Star's End""). The name and location was pretty much a riddle by Hari Seldon that I suspect was never intended to be answered (or possibly only answered by somebody of the right mindset). I think Mark has pretty much given all the relevant references to "Star's end" by the end of Second foundation (though I think later books had some different ways of looking at it).
    – Chris
    1 hour ago










  • To clarify: the sentence "circles have no end" is really about the phrase "the other end of the Galaxy", not about the name "Star's End". (I think you probably realize this already, but this answer makes it sound otherwise.)
    – ruakh
    1 hour ago
















sorry, i wrote the name of the planet wrong. I mean to ask, was there some poem, some text, some hint of the fact, that trantor was usually called stars end, before the very last chapter?
– josinalvo
2 hours ago




sorry, i wrote the name of the planet wrong. I mean to ask, was there some poem, some text, some hint of the fact, that trantor was usually called stars end, before the very last chapter?
– josinalvo
2 hours ago




1




1




I don't think it was usually called "Stars end". I seem to recall them looking pretty hard for something called "star's end" (and as this answer says they "considered "Tazenda" on the theory it's a corrupted form of "Star's End""). The name and location was pretty much a riddle by Hari Seldon that I suspect was never intended to be answered (or possibly only answered by somebody of the right mindset). I think Mark has pretty much given all the relevant references to "Star's end" by the end of Second foundation (though I think later books had some different ways of looking at it).
– Chris
1 hour ago




I don't think it was usually called "Stars end". I seem to recall them looking pretty hard for something called "star's end" (and as this answer says they "considered "Tazenda" on the theory it's a corrupted form of "Star's End""). The name and location was pretty much a riddle by Hari Seldon that I suspect was never intended to be answered (or possibly only answered by somebody of the right mindset). I think Mark has pretty much given all the relevant references to "Star's end" by the end of Second foundation (though I think later books had some different ways of looking at it).
– Chris
1 hour ago












To clarify: the sentence "circles have no end" is really about the phrase "the other end of the Galaxy", not about the name "Star's End". (I think you probably realize this already, but this answer makes it sound otherwise.)
– ruakh
1 hour ago




To clarify: the sentence "circles have no end" is really about the phrase "the other end of the Galaxy", not about the name "Star's End". (I think you probably realize this already, but this answer makes it sound otherwise.)
– ruakh
1 hour ago










josinalvo is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.










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