Origin of oe pronounced as /i/?
up vote
1
down vote
favorite
/i/ is usually pronounced in English with the vowels: e, ee, ea, ei, ie, and y. What is the origin of the pronunciation of words such as amoeba, phoenix or onomatopoeia?
I got curious about this after going through my daughter's phonics work and realizing that oe is never taught pronounced as /i/. Is this pronunciation of oe non-standard?
etymology vowels phonics
asked Apr 1 '14 at 6:04
jdphenix
1187
add a comment |
up vote
1
down vote
favorite
/i/ is usually pronounced in English with the vowels: e, ee, ea, ei, ie, and y. What is the origin of the pronunciation of words such as amoeba, phoenix or onomatopoeia?
I got curious about this after going through my daughter's phonics work and realizing that oe is never taught pronounced as /i/. Is this pronunciation of oe non-standard?
etymology vowels phonics
asked Apr 1 '14 at 6:04
jdphenix
1187
Are you making a distinction between words like phoenix and bioelectric? What is your daughter taught about -oe-?
– Andrew Leach♦
Apr 1 '14 at 6:31
1
@AndrewLeach Yes -fiːnɪksversusˌbaɪoʊɪˈlɛktrɪk. Right now, she is just learning phonics, so the diagraph oe (toe).
– jdphenix
Apr 1 '14 at 6:42
This is where etymology and hyphens are useful! At the end of a word like toe or floe or sloe (and sloe-like) it's /oʊ/; bio-electric doesn't have -oe- at all; and phœnix and amœba come from Greek. Phonics is only a rudimentary start in reading; but a proper answer here needs a teacher who uses phonics and can explain its methodology.
– Andrew Leach♦
Apr 1 '14 at 6:52
@AndrewLeach I don't believe the OP was asking in regards to his daughter, but rather out of his own curiosity. I think he just mentioned that he came up with the question while looking at his daughter's work. I imagine teaching the correct pronunciation (and spelling) of words like amoeba, onomatopoeia or foetus can certainly wait until the girl is old enough to know what those are or (in the case of diarrhea) has any need to actually read or write them...
– Alicja Z
Apr 1 '14 at 6:58
1
@AlicjaZ Exactly. When starting to read, a new reader is hardly going to be introduced to Greek etymology, so phoenix as /i:/ is left out. Phonics is rudimentary, and deliberately so. Enhancements such as unhyphenated bioelectric or Greek amoebae are left till later. That's what I meant; I'm sorry that my comment was unclear.
– Andrew Leach♦
Apr 1 '14 at 7:02
add a comment |
up vote
1
down vote
favorite
up vote
1
down vote
favorite
/i/ is usually pronounced in English with the vowels: e, ee, ea, ei, ie, and y. What is the origin of the pronunciation of words such as amoeba, phoenix or onomatopoeia?
I got curious about this after going through my daughter's phonics work and realizing that oe is never taught pronounced as /i/. Is this pronunciation of oe non-standard?
etymology vowels phonics
asked Apr 1 '14 at 6:04
jdphenix
1187
/i/ is usually pronounced in English with the vowels: e, ee, ea, ei, ie, and y. What is the origin of the pronunciation of words such as amoeba, phoenix or onomatopoeia?
I got curious about this after going through my daughter's phonics work and realizing that oe is never taught pronounced as /i/. Is this pronunciation of oe non-standard?
etymology vowels phonics
etymology vowels phonics
asked Apr 1 '14 at 6:04
jdphenix
1187
asked Apr 1 '14 at 6:04
jdphenix
1187
edited Apr 1 '14 at 7:09
asked Apr 1 '14 at 6:04
jdphenix
1187
asked Apr 1 '14 at 6:04
jdphenix
1187
asked Apr 1 '14 at 6:04
jdphenix
1187
1187
Are you making a distinction between words like phoenix and bioelectric? What is your daughter taught about -oe-?
– Andrew Leach♦
Apr 1 '14 at 6:31
1
@AndrewLeach Yes -fiːnɪksversusˌbaɪoʊɪˈlɛktrɪk. Right now, she is just learning phonics, so the diagraph oe (toe).
– jdphenix
Apr 1 '14 at 6:42
This is where etymology and hyphens are useful! At the end of a word like toe or floe or sloe (and sloe-like) it's /oʊ/; bio-electric doesn't have -oe- at all; and phœnix and amœba come from Greek. Phonics is only a rudimentary start in reading; but a proper answer here needs a teacher who uses phonics and can explain its methodology.
– Andrew Leach♦
Apr 1 '14 at 6:52
@AndrewLeach I don't believe the OP was asking in regards to his daughter, but rather out of his own curiosity. I think he just mentioned that he came up with the question while looking at his daughter's work. I imagine teaching the correct pronunciation (and spelling) of words like amoeba, onomatopoeia or foetus can certainly wait until the girl is old enough to know what those are or (in the case of diarrhea) has any need to actually read or write them...
– Alicja Z
Apr 1 '14 at 6:58
1
@AlicjaZ Exactly. When starting to read, a new reader is hardly going to be introduced to Greek etymology, so phoenix as /i:/ is left out. Phonics is rudimentary, and deliberately so. Enhancements such as unhyphenated bioelectric or Greek amoebae are left till later. That's what I meant; I'm sorry that my comment was unclear.
– Andrew Leach♦
Apr 1 '14 at 7:02
add a comment |
Are you making a distinction between words like phoenix and bioelectric? What is your daughter taught about -oe-?
– Andrew Leach♦
Apr 1 '14 at 6:31
1
@AndrewLeach Yes -fiːnɪksversusˌbaɪoʊɪˈlɛktrɪk. Right now, she is just learning phonics, so the diagraph oe (toe).
– jdphenix
Apr 1 '14 at 6:42
This is where etymology and hyphens are useful! At the end of a word like toe or floe or sloe (and sloe-like) it's /oʊ/; bio-electric doesn't have -oe- at all; and phœnix and amœba come from Greek. Phonics is only a rudimentary start in reading; but a proper answer here needs a teacher who uses phonics and can explain its methodology.
– Andrew Leach♦
Apr 1 '14 at 6:52
@AndrewLeach I don't believe the OP was asking in regards to his daughter, but rather out of his own curiosity. I think he just mentioned that he came up with the question while looking at his daughter's work. I imagine teaching the correct pronunciation (and spelling) of words like amoeba, onomatopoeia or foetus can certainly wait until the girl is old enough to know what those are or (in the case of diarrhea) has any need to actually read or write them...
– Alicja Z
Apr 1 '14 at 6:58
1
@AlicjaZ Exactly. When starting to read, a new reader is hardly going to be introduced to Greek etymology, so phoenix as /i:/ is left out. Phonics is rudimentary, and deliberately so. Enhancements such as unhyphenated bioelectric or Greek amoebae are left till later. That's what I meant; I'm sorry that my comment was unclear.
– Andrew Leach♦
Apr 1 '14 at 7:02
Are you making a distinction between words like phoenix and bioelectric? What is your daughter taught about -oe-?
– Andrew Leach♦
Apr 1 '14 at 6:31
Are you making a distinction between words like phoenix and bioelectric? What is your daughter taught about -oe-?
– Andrew Leach♦
Apr 1 '14 at 6:31
1
1
@AndrewLeach Yes -
fiːnɪks versus ˌbaɪoʊɪˈlɛktrɪk. Right now, she is just learning phonics, so the diagraph oe (toe).– jdphenix
Apr 1 '14 at 6:42
@AndrewLeach Yes -
fiːnɪks versus ˌbaɪoʊɪˈlɛktrɪk. Right now, she is just learning phonics, so the diagraph oe (toe).– jdphenix
Apr 1 '14 at 6:42
This is where etymology and hyphens are useful! At the end of a word like toe or floe or sloe (and sloe-like) it's /oʊ/; bio-electric doesn't have -oe- at all; and phœnix and amœba come from Greek. Phonics is only a rudimentary start in reading; but a proper answer here needs a teacher who uses phonics and can explain its methodology.
– Andrew Leach♦
Apr 1 '14 at 6:52
This is where etymology and hyphens are useful! At the end of a word like toe or floe or sloe (and sloe-like) it's /oʊ/; bio-electric doesn't have -oe- at all; and phœnix and amœba come from Greek. Phonics is only a rudimentary start in reading; but a proper answer here needs a teacher who uses phonics and can explain its methodology.
– Andrew Leach♦
Apr 1 '14 at 6:52
@AndrewLeach I don't believe the OP was asking in regards to his daughter, but rather out of his own curiosity. I think he just mentioned that he came up with the question while looking at his daughter's work. I imagine teaching the correct pronunciation (and spelling) of words like amoeba, onomatopoeia or foetus can certainly wait until the girl is old enough to know what those are or (in the case of diarrhea) has any need to actually read or write them...
– Alicja Z
Apr 1 '14 at 6:58
@AndrewLeach I don't believe the OP was asking in regards to his daughter, but rather out of his own curiosity. I think he just mentioned that he came up with the question while looking at his daughter's work. I imagine teaching the correct pronunciation (and spelling) of words like amoeba, onomatopoeia or foetus can certainly wait until the girl is old enough to know what those are or (in the case of diarrhea) has any need to actually read or write them...
– Alicja Z
Apr 1 '14 at 6:58
1
1
@AlicjaZ Exactly. When starting to read, a new reader is hardly going to be introduced to Greek etymology, so phoenix as /i:/ is left out. Phonics is rudimentary, and deliberately so. Enhancements such as unhyphenated bioelectric or Greek amoebae are left till later. That's what I meant; I'm sorry that my comment was unclear.
– Andrew Leach♦
Apr 1 '14 at 7:02
@AlicjaZ Exactly. When starting to read, a new reader is hardly going to be introduced to Greek etymology, so phoenix as /i:/ is left out. Phonics is rudimentary, and deliberately so. Enhancements such as unhyphenated bioelectric or Greek amoebae are left till later. That's what I meant; I'm sorry that my comment was unclear.
– Andrew Leach♦
Apr 1 '14 at 7:02
add a comment |
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
up vote
3
down vote
accepted
So, etymonline provides the following comment:
oe
found in Greek borrowings into Latin, representing Greek -oi-. Words
with -oe- that came early into English from Old French or Medieval
Latin usually already had been levelled to -e- (e.g. economic, penal,
cemetery), but later borrowings directly from Latin or Greek tended to
retain it at first (oestrus, diarrhoea, amoeba) as did proper names
(Oedipus, Phoebe, Phoenix) and purely technical terms. British English
tends to be more conservative with it than American, which has done
away with it in all but a few instances.
It also occurred in some native Latin words (foedus "treaty, league,"
foetere "to stink," hence occasionally in English foetid, foederal,
which was the form in the original publications of the "Federalist"
papers). In these it represents an ancient -oi- in Old Latin (e.g. Old
Latin oino, Classical Latin unus), which apparently passed through an
-oe- form before being levelled out but was preserved into Classical Latin in certain words, especially those belonging to the realms of
law (e.g. foedus) and religion, which, along with the vocabulary of
sailors, are the most conservative branches of any language in any
time, through a need for precision, immediate comprehension,
demonstration of learning, or superstition. But in foetus it was an
unetymological spelling in Latin that was picked up in English and
formed the predominant spelling of fetus into the early 20c.
So basically the unusual /i/ pronunciation of 'oe' originates from the Greek 'oi' via Latin.
Interestingly, even within the same field of e.g. medicine, while some words seem to be in the process of changing their pronunciation (oestrogen is pronounced both ways), others are still in the /i/ phase (diarrhoea).
That said, the above is likely just a starting point for a better, more thorough answer from somebody else...
answered Apr 1 '14 at 6:48
Alicja Z
1,861822
add a comment |
up vote
0
down vote
How about pancakes at 10a tommarrow morning and then a conversation thereafter that a moe better feeling on the word
fine
answered 13 mins ago
Yvonne Cardwell
1
New contributor
Yvonne Cardwell is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
add a comment |
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
3
down vote
accepted
So, etymonline provides the following comment:
oe
found in Greek borrowings into Latin, representing Greek -oi-. Words
with -oe- that came early into English from Old French or Medieval
Latin usually already had been levelled to -e- (e.g. economic, penal,
cemetery), but later borrowings directly from Latin or Greek tended to
retain it at first (oestrus, diarrhoea, amoeba) as did proper names
(Oedipus, Phoebe, Phoenix) and purely technical terms. British English
tends to be more conservative with it than American, which has done
away with it in all but a few instances.
It also occurred in some native Latin words (foedus "treaty, league,"
foetere "to stink," hence occasionally in English foetid, foederal,
which was the form in the original publications of the "Federalist"
papers). In these it represents an ancient -oi- in Old Latin (e.g. Old
Latin oino, Classical Latin unus), which apparently passed through an
-oe- form before being levelled out but was preserved into Classical Latin in certain words, especially those belonging to the realms of
law (e.g. foedus) and religion, which, along with the vocabulary of
sailors, are the most conservative branches of any language in any
time, through a need for precision, immediate comprehension,
demonstration of learning, or superstition. But in foetus it was an
unetymological spelling in Latin that was picked up in English and
formed the predominant spelling of fetus into the early 20c.
So basically the unusual /i/ pronunciation of 'oe' originates from the Greek 'oi' via Latin.
Interestingly, even within the same field of e.g. medicine, while some words seem to be in the process of changing their pronunciation (oestrogen is pronounced both ways), others are still in the /i/ phase (diarrhoea).
That said, the above is likely just a starting point for a better, more thorough answer from somebody else...
answered Apr 1 '14 at 6:48
Alicja Z
1,861822
add a comment |
up vote
3
down vote
accepted
So, etymonline provides the following comment:
oe
found in Greek borrowings into Latin, representing Greek -oi-. Words
with -oe- that came early into English from Old French or Medieval
Latin usually already had been levelled to -e- (e.g. economic, penal,
cemetery), but later borrowings directly from Latin or Greek tended to
retain it at first (oestrus, diarrhoea, amoeba) as did proper names
(Oedipus, Phoebe, Phoenix) and purely technical terms. British English
tends to be more conservative with it than American, which has done
away with it in all but a few instances.
It also occurred in some native Latin words (foedus "treaty, league,"
foetere "to stink," hence occasionally in English foetid, foederal,
which was the form in the original publications of the "Federalist"
papers). In these it represents an ancient -oi- in Old Latin (e.g. Old
Latin oino, Classical Latin unus), which apparently passed through an
-oe- form before being levelled out but was preserved into Classical Latin in certain words, especially those belonging to the realms of
law (e.g. foedus) and religion, which, along with the vocabulary of
sailors, are the most conservative branches of any language in any
time, through a need for precision, immediate comprehension,
demonstration of learning, or superstition. But in foetus it was an
unetymological spelling in Latin that was picked up in English and
formed the predominant spelling of fetus into the early 20c.
So basically the unusual /i/ pronunciation of 'oe' originates from the Greek 'oi' via Latin.
Interestingly, even within the same field of e.g. medicine, while some words seem to be in the process of changing their pronunciation (oestrogen is pronounced both ways), others are still in the /i/ phase (diarrhoea).
That said, the above is likely just a starting point for a better, more thorough answer from somebody else...
answered Apr 1 '14 at 6:48
Alicja Z
1,861822
add a comment |
up vote
3
down vote
accepted
up vote
3
down vote
accepted
So, etymonline provides the following comment:
oe
found in Greek borrowings into Latin, representing Greek -oi-. Words
with -oe- that came early into English from Old French or Medieval
Latin usually already had been levelled to -e- (e.g. economic, penal,
cemetery), but later borrowings directly from Latin or Greek tended to
retain it at first (oestrus, diarrhoea, amoeba) as did proper names
(Oedipus, Phoebe, Phoenix) and purely technical terms. British English
tends to be more conservative with it than American, which has done
away with it in all but a few instances.
It also occurred in some native Latin words (foedus "treaty, league,"
foetere "to stink," hence occasionally in English foetid, foederal,
which was the form in the original publications of the "Federalist"
papers). In these it represents an ancient -oi- in Old Latin (e.g. Old
Latin oino, Classical Latin unus), which apparently passed through an
-oe- form before being levelled out but was preserved into Classical Latin in certain words, especially those belonging to the realms of
law (e.g. foedus) and religion, which, along with the vocabulary of
sailors, are the most conservative branches of any language in any
time, through a need for precision, immediate comprehension,
demonstration of learning, or superstition. But in foetus it was an
unetymological spelling in Latin that was picked up in English and
formed the predominant spelling of fetus into the early 20c.
So basically the unusual /i/ pronunciation of 'oe' originates from the Greek 'oi' via Latin.
Interestingly, even within the same field of e.g. medicine, while some words seem to be in the process of changing their pronunciation (oestrogen is pronounced both ways), others are still in the /i/ phase (diarrhoea).
That said, the above is likely just a starting point for a better, more thorough answer from somebody else...
answered Apr 1 '14 at 6:48
Alicja Z
1,861822
So, etymonline provides the following comment:
oe
found in Greek borrowings into Latin, representing Greek -oi-. Words
with -oe- that came early into English from Old French or Medieval
Latin usually already had been levelled to -e- (e.g. economic, penal,
cemetery), but later borrowings directly from Latin or Greek tended to
retain it at first (oestrus, diarrhoea, amoeba) as did proper names
(Oedipus, Phoebe, Phoenix) and purely technical terms. British English
tends to be more conservative with it than American, which has done
away with it in all but a few instances.
It also occurred in some native Latin words (foedus "treaty, league,"
foetere "to stink," hence occasionally in English foetid, foederal,
which was the form in the original publications of the "Federalist"
papers). In these it represents an ancient -oi- in Old Latin (e.g. Old
Latin oino, Classical Latin unus), which apparently passed through an
-oe- form before being levelled out but was preserved into Classical Latin in certain words, especially those belonging to the realms of
law (e.g. foedus) and religion, which, along with the vocabulary of
sailors, are the most conservative branches of any language in any
time, through a need for precision, immediate comprehension,
demonstration of learning, or superstition. But in foetus it was an
unetymological spelling in Latin that was picked up in English and
formed the predominant spelling of fetus into the early 20c.
So basically the unusual /i/ pronunciation of 'oe' originates from the Greek 'oi' via Latin.
Interestingly, even within the same field of e.g. medicine, while some words seem to be in the process of changing their pronunciation (oestrogen is pronounced both ways), others are still in the /i/ phase (diarrhoea).
That said, the above is likely just a starting point for a better, more thorough answer from somebody else...
answered Apr 1 '14 at 6:48
Alicja Z
1,861822
edited Apr 1 '14 at 6:55
answered Apr 1 '14 at 6:48
Alicja Z
1,861822
answered Apr 1 '14 at 6:48
Alicja Z
1,861822
answered Apr 1 '14 at 6:48
Alicja Z
1,861822
1,861822
add a comment |
add a comment |
up vote
0
down vote
How about pancakes at 10a tommarrow morning and then a conversation thereafter that a moe better feeling on the word
fine
answered 13 mins ago
Yvonne Cardwell
1
New contributor
Yvonne Cardwell is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
add a comment |
up vote
0
down vote
How about pancakes at 10a tommarrow morning and then a conversation thereafter that a moe better feeling on the word
fine
answered 13 mins ago
Yvonne Cardwell
1
New contributor
Yvonne Cardwell is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
add a comment |
up vote
0
down vote
up vote
0
down vote
How about pancakes at 10a tommarrow morning and then a conversation thereafter that a moe better feeling on the word
fine
answered 13 mins ago
Yvonne Cardwell
1
New contributor
Yvonne Cardwell is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
How about pancakes at 10a tommarrow morning and then a conversation thereafter that a moe better feeling on the word
fine
answered 13 mins ago
Yvonne Cardwell
1
New contributor
Yvonne Cardwell is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
answered 13 mins ago
Yvonne Cardwell
1
New contributor
Yvonne Cardwell is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
answered 13 mins ago
Yvonne Cardwell
1
answered 13 mins ago
Yvonne Cardwell
1
1
New contributor
Yvonne Cardwell is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
New contributor
Yvonne Cardwell is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
Yvonne Cardwell is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
add a comment |
add a comment |
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Are you making a distinction between words like phoenix and bioelectric? What is your daughter taught about -oe-?
– Andrew Leach♦
Apr 1 '14 at 6:31
1
@AndrewLeach Yes -
fiːnɪksversusˌbaɪoʊɪˈlɛktrɪk. Right now, she is just learning phonics, so the diagraph oe (toe).– jdphenix
Apr 1 '14 at 6:42
This is where etymology and hyphens are useful! At the end of a word like toe or floe or sloe (and sloe-like) it's /oʊ/; bio-electric doesn't have -oe- at all; and phœnix and amœba come from Greek. Phonics is only a rudimentary start in reading; but a proper answer here needs a teacher who uses phonics and can explain its methodology.
– Andrew Leach♦
Apr 1 '14 at 6:52
@AndrewLeach I don't believe the OP was asking in regards to his daughter, but rather out of his own curiosity. I think he just mentioned that he came up with the question while looking at his daughter's work. I imagine teaching the correct pronunciation (and spelling) of words like amoeba, onomatopoeia or foetus can certainly wait until the girl is old enough to know what those are or (in the case of diarrhea) has any need to actually read or write them...
– Alicja Z
Apr 1 '14 at 6:58
1
@AlicjaZ Exactly. When starting to read, a new reader is hardly going to be introduced to Greek etymology, so phoenix as /i:/ is left out. Phonics is rudimentary, and deliberately so. Enhancements such as unhyphenated bioelectric or Greek amoebae are left till later. That's what I meant; I'm sorry that my comment was unclear.
– Andrew Leach♦
Apr 1 '14 at 7:02