Is this alternate version of the “Observant” Feat balanced?












2














I'm a DM and have a player who likes the Observant feat (PHB, p. 168):





  • Increase your Intelligence or Wisdom score by 1, to a maximum of 20.

  • If you can see a creature's mouth while it is speaking a language you understand, you can interpret what it's saying by reading its lips.

  • You have a +5 bonus to your passive Wisdom (Perception) and passive Intelligence (Investigation) scores.




However, the player is concerned that it might be hard to remember when to apply the bonus and that the bonuses may be too situational (Only affects passives, references "passive Investigation" which I've never seen used).



To try to simplify things, I wrote a homebrew version of the Observant feat using the Perceptive feat (from Unearthed Arcana: Skill Feats) as a guideline:





  • Increase your Intelligence or Wisdom score by 1, to a maximum of 20.

  • You gain proficiency in the Perception skill. If you are already proficient in the skill, you add double your proficiency bonus to checks you make with it.

  • You gain proficiency in the Investigation skill. If you are already proficient in the skill, you add double your proficiency bonus to checks you make with it.




(Basically, it just grants proficiency/expertise for all Perception and Investigation checks rather than a single bonus for passive scores).



Is this feat effectively balanced with the original?






dnd-5e feats homebrew balance







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    2














    I'm a DM and have a player who likes the Observant feat (PHB, p. 168):





    • Increase your Intelligence or Wisdom score by 1, to a maximum of 20.

    • If you can see a creature's mouth while it is speaking a language you understand, you can interpret what it's saying by reading its lips.

    • You have a +5 bonus to your passive Wisdom (Perception) and passive Intelligence (Investigation) scores.




    However, the player is concerned that it might be hard to remember when to apply the bonus and that the bonuses may be too situational (Only affects passives, references "passive Investigation" which I've never seen used).



    To try to simplify things, I wrote a homebrew version of the Observant feat using the Perceptive feat (from Unearthed Arcana: Skill Feats) as a guideline:





    • Increase your Intelligence or Wisdom score by 1, to a maximum of 20.

    • You gain proficiency in the Perception skill. If you are already proficient in the skill, you add double your proficiency bonus to checks you make with it.

    • You gain proficiency in the Investigation skill. If you are already proficient in the skill, you add double your proficiency bonus to checks you make with it.




    (Basically, it just grants proficiency/expertise for all Perception and Investigation checks rather than a single bonus for passive scores).



    Is this feat effectively balanced with the original?






    dnd-5e feats homebrew balance







    share|improve this question









    New contributor




    zashu is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
    Check out our Code of Conduct.























      2












      2








      2







      I'm a DM and have a player who likes the Observant feat (PHB, p. 168):





      • Increase your Intelligence or Wisdom score by 1, to a maximum of 20.

      • If you can see a creature's mouth while it is speaking a language you understand, you can interpret what it's saying by reading its lips.

      • You have a +5 bonus to your passive Wisdom (Perception) and passive Intelligence (Investigation) scores.




      However, the player is concerned that it might be hard to remember when to apply the bonus and that the bonuses may be too situational (Only affects passives, references "passive Investigation" which I've never seen used).



      To try to simplify things, I wrote a homebrew version of the Observant feat using the Perceptive feat (from Unearthed Arcana: Skill Feats) as a guideline:





      • Increase your Intelligence or Wisdom score by 1, to a maximum of 20.

      • You gain proficiency in the Perception skill. If you are already proficient in the skill, you add double your proficiency bonus to checks you make with it.

      • You gain proficiency in the Investigation skill. If you are already proficient in the skill, you add double your proficiency bonus to checks you make with it.




      (Basically, it just grants proficiency/expertise for all Perception and Investigation checks rather than a single bonus for passive scores).



      Is this feat effectively balanced with the original?






      dnd-5e feats homebrew balance







      share|improve this question









      New contributor




      zashu is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
      Check out our Code of Conduct.











      I'm a DM and have a player who likes the Observant feat (PHB, p. 168):





      • Increase your Intelligence or Wisdom score by 1, to a maximum of 20.

      • If you can see a creature's mouth while it is speaking a language you understand, you can interpret what it's saying by reading its lips.

      • You have a +5 bonus to your passive Wisdom (Perception) and passive Intelligence (Investigation) scores.




      However, the player is concerned that it might be hard to remember when to apply the bonus and that the bonuses may be too situational (Only affects passives, references "passive Investigation" which I've never seen used).



      To try to simplify things, I wrote a homebrew version of the Observant feat using the Perceptive feat (from Unearthed Arcana: Skill Feats) as a guideline:





      • Increase your Intelligence or Wisdom score by 1, to a maximum of 20.

      • You gain proficiency in the Perception skill. If you are already proficient in the skill, you add double your proficiency bonus to checks you make with it.

      • You gain proficiency in the Investigation skill. If you are already proficient in the skill, you add double your proficiency bonus to checks you make with it.




      (Basically, it just grants proficiency/expertise for all Perception and Investigation checks rather than a single bonus for passive scores).



      Is this feat effectively balanced with the original?






      dnd-5e feats homebrew balance




      dnd-5e feats homebrew balance






      share|improve this question









      New contributor




      zashu is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
      Check out our Code of Conduct.











      share|improve this question









      New contributor




      zashu is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
      Check out our Code of Conduct.









      share|improve this question




      share|improve this question








      edited 2 hours ago









      V2Blast

      19.6k355121




      19.6k355121






      New contributor




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      asked 4 hours ago









      zashu

      1143




      1143




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      New contributor





      zashu is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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      Check out our Code of Conduct.






















          1 Answer
          1






          active

          oldest

          votes


















          6














          Your player’s concerns are unfounded, so you don’t need to homebrew a feat.



          The bonuses aren't situational, so they will be hard to forget.




          • For passive Perception, you just add it right to the passive Perception score recorded on the sheet. Then, when you as DM need a Perception test without the players knowing there’s something to perceive, you use the passive Perception score instead of asking for a roll that would alert the players. That kind of secret check is what passive skill scores are for.


          • For Investigation, you just add it straight to the passive score on the sheet, too. (There isn't an reserved spot on the official character sheet, but your player can note it somewhere, and you can note it in your DM notes on the PCs.) Then just like with passive Perception, you the DM note this down, and use it every time you need a “secret” Investigation check, the way passive checks are normally made. I'm personally unclear on when passive Investigation would be used — you'd think that Investigation is hard to to anything but actively — but my lack of imagination doesn't make it harder to keep track of.







          share|improve this answer























          • I completely misread the investigation part, that makes it way better! Thanks for the answer and, you're right, there's no need for an alternate feat :)
            – zashu
            4 hours ago






          • 2




            You are mistaken about Investigation. The bonus is to your scores and the bonus to a skill check is not a score.
            – Szega
            3 hours ago










          • I don't know how rpg.se stands to dndbeyond as official source, but Observant's third bullet is worded differently there: “You have a +5 bonus to your passive Wisdom (Perception) and passive Intelligence (Investigation) scores.” I could not find an errata to support this discrepancy.
            – Thyzer
            3 hours ago












          • @zashu Looks like Szega and Thyzer is right that it is to passive Investigation — I should have checked my PHB before I posted! I'm going to edit the answer, but I don't think it materially changes it, since it's still not situational. (I'm still personally unclear on what situations passive Investigation would apply to. Perhaps a subject for a new Question.)
            – SevenSidedDie♦
            2 hours ago






          • 1




            @V2Blast Ah, do they… 🤦‍♀️
            – SevenSidedDie♦
            2 hours ago











          Your Answer





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          1 Answer
          1






          active

          oldest

          votes








          1 Answer
          1






          active

          oldest

          votes









          active

          oldest

          votes






          active

          oldest

          votes









          6














          Your player’s concerns are unfounded, so you don’t need to homebrew a feat.



          The bonuses aren't situational, so they will be hard to forget.




          • For passive Perception, you just add it right to the passive Perception score recorded on the sheet. Then, when you as DM need a Perception test without the players knowing there’s something to perceive, you use the passive Perception score instead of asking for a roll that would alert the players. That kind of secret check is what passive skill scores are for.


          • For Investigation, you just add it straight to the passive score on the sheet, too. (There isn't an reserved spot on the official character sheet, but your player can note it somewhere, and you can note it in your DM notes on the PCs.) Then just like with passive Perception, you the DM note this down, and use it every time you need a “secret” Investigation check, the way passive checks are normally made. I'm personally unclear on when passive Investigation would be used — you'd think that Investigation is hard to to anything but actively — but my lack of imagination doesn't make it harder to keep track of.







          share|improve this answer























          • I completely misread the investigation part, that makes it way better! Thanks for the answer and, you're right, there's no need for an alternate feat :)
            – zashu
            4 hours ago






          • 2




            You are mistaken about Investigation. The bonus is to your scores and the bonus to a skill check is not a score.
            – Szega
            3 hours ago










          • I don't know how rpg.se stands to dndbeyond as official source, but Observant's third bullet is worded differently there: “You have a +5 bonus to your passive Wisdom (Perception) and passive Intelligence (Investigation) scores.” I could not find an errata to support this discrepancy.
            – Thyzer
            3 hours ago












          • @zashu Looks like Szega and Thyzer is right that it is to passive Investigation — I should have checked my PHB before I posted! I'm going to edit the answer, but I don't think it materially changes it, since it's still not situational. (I'm still personally unclear on what situations passive Investigation would apply to. Perhaps a subject for a new Question.)
            – SevenSidedDie♦
            2 hours ago






          • 1




            @V2Blast Ah, do they… 🤦‍♀️
            – SevenSidedDie♦
            2 hours ago
















          6














          Your player’s concerns are unfounded, so you don’t need to homebrew a feat.



          The bonuses aren't situational, so they will be hard to forget.




          • For passive Perception, you just add it right to the passive Perception score recorded on the sheet. Then, when you as DM need a Perception test without the players knowing there’s something to perceive, you use the passive Perception score instead of asking for a roll that would alert the players. That kind of secret check is what passive skill scores are for.


          • For Investigation, you just add it straight to the passive score on the sheet, too. (There isn't an reserved spot on the official character sheet, but your player can note it somewhere, and you can note it in your DM notes on the PCs.) Then just like with passive Perception, you the DM note this down, and use it every time you need a “secret” Investigation check, the way passive checks are normally made. I'm personally unclear on when passive Investigation would be used — you'd think that Investigation is hard to to anything but actively — but my lack of imagination doesn't make it harder to keep track of.







          share|improve this answer























          • I completely misread the investigation part, that makes it way better! Thanks for the answer and, you're right, there's no need for an alternate feat :)
            – zashu
            4 hours ago






          • 2




            You are mistaken about Investigation. The bonus is to your scores and the bonus to a skill check is not a score.
            – Szega
            3 hours ago










          • I don't know how rpg.se stands to dndbeyond as official source, but Observant's third bullet is worded differently there: “You have a +5 bonus to your passive Wisdom (Perception) and passive Intelligence (Investigation) scores.” I could not find an errata to support this discrepancy.
            – Thyzer
            3 hours ago












          • @zashu Looks like Szega and Thyzer is right that it is to passive Investigation — I should have checked my PHB before I posted! I'm going to edit the answer, but I don't think it materially changes it, since it's still not situational. (I'm still personally unclear on what situations passive Investigation would apply to. Perhaps a subject for a new Question.)
            – SevenSidedDie♦
            2 hours ago






          • 1




            @V2Blast Ah, do they… 🤦‍♀️
            – SevenSidedDie♦
            2 hours ago














          6












          6








          6






          Your player’s concerns are unfounded, so you don’t need to homebrew a feat.



          The bonuses aren't situational, so they will be hard to forget.




          • For passive Perception, you just add it right to the passive Perception score recorded on the sheet. Then, when you as DM need a Perception test without the players knowing there’s something to perceive, you use the passive Perception score instead of asking for a roll that would alert the players. That kind of secret check is what passive skill scores are for.


          • For Investigation, you just add it straight to the passive score on the sheet, too. (There isn't an reserved spot on the official character sheet, but your player can note it somewhere, and you can note it in your DM notes on the PCs.) Then just like with passive Perception, you the DM note this down, and use it every time you need a “secret” Investigation check, the way passive checks are normally made. I'm personally unclear on when passive Investigation would be used — you'd think that Investigation is hard to to anything but actively — but my lack of imagination doesn't make it harder to keep track of.







          share|improve this answer














          Your player’s concerns are unfounded, so you don’t need to homebrew a feat.



          The bonuses aren't situational, so they will be hard to forget.




          • For passive Perception, you just add it right to the passive Perception score recorded on the sheet. Then, when you as DM need a Perception test without the players knowing there’s something to perceive, you use the passive Perception score instead of asking for a roll that would alert the players. That kind of secret check is what passive skill scores are for.


          • For Investigation, you just add it straight to the passive score on the sheet, too. (There isn't an reserved spot on the official character sheet, but your player can note it somewhere, and you can note it in your DM notes on the PCs.) Then just like with passive Perception, you the DM note this down, and use it every time you need a “secret” Investigation check, the way passive checks are normally made. I'm personally unclear on when passive Investigation would be used — you'd think that Investigation is hard to to anything but actively — but my lack of imagination doesn't make it harder to keep track of.








          share|improve this answer














          share|improve this answer



          share|improve this answer








          edited 2 hours ago

























          answered 4 hours ago









          SevenSidedDie♦

          205k29657933




          205k29657933












          • I completely misread the investigation part, that makes it way better! Thanks for the answer and, you're right, there's no need for an alternate feat :)
            – zashu
            4 hours ago






          • 2




            You are mistaken about Investigation. The bonus is to your scores and the bonus to a skill check is not a score.
            – Szega
            3 hours ago










          • I don't know how rpg.se stands to dndbeyond as official source, but Observant's third bullet is worded differently there: “You have a +5 bonus to your passive Wisdom (Perception) and passive Intelligence (Investigation) scores.” I could not find an errata to support this discrepancy.
            – Thyzer
            3 hours ago












          • @zashu Looks like Szega and Thyzer is right that it is to passive Investigation — I should have checked my PHB before I posted! I'm going to edit the answer, but I don't think it materially changes it, since it's still not situational. (I'm still personally unclear on what situations passive Investigation would apply to. Perhaps a subject for a new Question.)
            – SevenSidedDie♦
            2 hours ago






          • 1




            @V2Blast Ah, do they… 🤦‍♀️
            – SevenSidedDie♦
            2 hours ago


















          • I completely misread the investigation part, that makes it way better! Thanks for the answer and, you're right, there's no need for an alternate feat :)
            – zashu
            4 hours ago






          • 2




            You are mistaken about Investigation. The bonus is to your scores and the bonus to a skill check is not a score.
            – Szega
            3 hours ago










          • I don't know how rpg.se stands to dndbeyond as official source, but Observant's third bullet is worded differently there: “You have a +5 bonus to your passive Wisdom (Perception) and passive Intelligence (Investigation) scores.” I could not find an errata to support this discrepancy.
            – Thyzer
            3 hours ago












          • @zashu Looks like Szega and Thyzer is right that it is to passive Investigation — I should have checked my PHB before I posted! I'm going to edit the answer, but I don't think it materially changes it, since it's still not situational. (I'm still personally unclear on what situations passive Investigation would apply to. Perhaps a subject for a new Question.)
            – SevenSidedDie♦
            2 hours ago






          • 1




            @V2Blast Ah, do they… 🤦‍♀️
            – SevenSidedDie♦
            2 hours ago
















          I completely misread the investigation part, that makes it way better! Thanks for the answer and, you're right, there's no need for an alternate feat :)
          – zashu
          4 hours ago




          I completely misread the investigation part, that makes it way better! Thanks for the answer and, you're right, there's no need for an alternate feat :)
          – zashu
          4 hours ago




          2




          2




          You are mistaken about Investigation. The bonus is to your scores and the bonus to a skill check is not a score.
          – Szega
          3 hours ago




          You are mistaken about Investigation. The bonus is to your scores and the bonus to a skill check is not a score.
          – Szega
          3 hours ago












          I don't know how rpg.se stands to dndbeyond as official source, but Observant's third bullet is worded differently there: “You have a +5 bonus to your passive Wisdom (Perception) and passive Intelligence (Investigation) scores.” I could not find an errata to support this discrepancy.
          – Thyzer
          3 hours ago






          I don't know how rpg.se stands to dndbeyond as official source, but Observant's third bullet is worded differently there: “You have a +5 bonus to your passive Wisdom (Perception) and passive Intelligence (Investigation) scores.” I could not find an errata to support this discrepancy.
          – Thyzer
          3 hours ago














          @zashu Looks like Szega and Thyzer is right that it is to passive Investigation — I should have checked my PHB before I posted! I'm going to edit the answer, but I don't think it materially changes it, since it's still not situational. (I'm still personally unclear on what situations passive Investigation would apply to. Perhaps a subject for a new Question.)
          – SevenSidedDie♦
          2 hours ago




          @zashu Looks like Szega and Thyzer is right that it is to passive Investigation — I should have checked my PHB before I posted! I'm going to edit the answer, but I don't think it materially changes it, since it's still not situational. (I'm still personally unclear on what situations passive Investigation would apply to. Perhaps a subject for a new Question.)
          – SevenSidedDie♦
          2 hours ago




          1




          1




          @V2Blast Ah, do they… 🤦‍♀️
          – SevenSidedDie♦
          2 hours ago




          @V2Blast Ah, do they… 🤦‍♀️
          – SevenSidedDie♦
          2 hours ago










          zashu is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.










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