Is this alternate version of the “Observant” Feat balanced?
I'm a DM and have a player who likes the Observant feat (PHB, p. 168):
- Increase your Intelligence or Wisdom score by 1, to a maximum of 20.
- If you can see a creature's mouth while it is speaking a language you understand, you can interpret what it's saying by reading its lips.
- You have a +5 bonus to your passive Wisdom (Perception) and passive Intelligence (Investigation) scores.
However, the player is concerned that it might be hard to remember when to apply the bonus and that the bonuses may be too situational (Only affects passives, references "passive Investigation" which I've never seen used).
To try to simplify things, I wrote a homebrew version of the Observant feat using the Perceptive feat (from Unearthed Arcana: Skill Feats) as a guideline:
- Increase your Intelligence or Wisdom score by 1, to a maximum of 20.
- You gain proficiency in the Perception skill. If you are already proficient in the skill, you add double your proficiency bonus to checks you make with it.
- You gain proficiency in the Investigation skill. If you are already proficient in the skill, you add double your proficiency bonus to checks you make with it.
(Basically, it just grants proficiency/expertise for all Perception and Investigation checks rather than a single bonus for passive scores).
Is this feat effectively balanced with the original?
dnd-5e feats homebrew balance
New contributor
add a comment |
I'm a DM and have a player who likes the Observant feat (PHB, p. 168):
- Increase your Intelligence or Wisdom score by 1, to a maximum of 20.
- If you can see a creature's mouth while it is speaking a language you understand, you can interpret what it's saying by reading its lips.
- You have a +5 bonus to your passive Wisdom (Perception) and passive Intelligence (Investigation) scores.
However, the player is concerned that it might be hard to remember when to apply the bonus and that the bonuses may be too situational (Only affects passives, references "passive Investigation" which I've never seen used).
To try to simplify things, I wrote a homebrew version of the Observant feat using the Perceptive feat (from Unearthed Arcana: Skill Feats) as a guideline:
- Increase your Intelligence or Wisdom score by 1, to a maximum of 20.
- You gain proficiency in the Perception skill. If you are already proficient in the skill, you add double your proficiency bonus to checks you make with it.
- You gain proficiency in the Investigation skill. If you are already proficient in the skill, you add double your proficiency bonus to checks you make with it.
(Basically, it just grants proficiency/expertise for all Perception and Investigation checks rather than a single bonus for passive scores).
Is this feat effectively balanced with the original?
dnd-5e feats homebrew balance
New contributor
add a comment |
I'm a DM and have a player who likes the Observant feat (PHB, p. 168):
- Increase your Intelligence or Wisdom score by 1, to a maximum of 20.
- If you can see a creature's mouth while it is speaking a language you understand, you can interpret what it's saying by reading its lips.
- You have a +5 bonus to your passive Wisdom (Perception) and passive Intelligence (Investigation) scores.
However, the player is concerned that it might be hard to remember when to apply the bonus and that the bonuses may be too situational (Only affects passives, references "passive Investigation" which I've never seen used).
To try to simplify things, I wrote a homebrew version of the Observant feat using the Perceptive feat (from Unearthed Arcana: Skill Feats) as a guideline:
- Increase your Intelligence or Wisdom score by 1, to a maximum of 20.
- You gain proficiency in the Perception skill. If you are already proficient in the skill, you add double your proficiency bonus to checks you make with it.
- You gain proficiency in the Investigation skill. If you are already proficient in the skill, you add double your proficiency bonus to checks you make with it.
(Basically, it just grants proficiency/expertise for all Perception and Investigation checks rather than a single bonus for passive scores).
Is this feat effectively balanced with the original?
dnd-5e feats homebrew balance
New contributor
I'm a DM and have a player who likes the Observant feat (PHB, p. 168):
- Increase your Intelligence or Wisdom score by 1, to a maximum of 20.
- If you can see a creature's mouth while it is speaking a language you understand, you can interpret what it's saying by reading its lips.
- You have a +5 bonus to your passive Wisdom (Perception) and passive Intelligence (Investigation) scores.
However, the player is concerned that it might be hard to remember when to apply the bonus and that the bonuses may be too situational (Only affects passives, references "passive Investigation" which I've never seen used).
To try to simplify things, I wrote a homebrew version of the Observant feat using the Perceptive feat (from Unearthed Arcana: Skill Feats) as a guideline:
- Increase your Intelligence or Wisdom score by 1, to a maximum of 20.
- You gain proficiency in the Perception skill. If you are already proficient in the skill, you add double your proficiency bonus to checks you make with it.
- You gain proficiency in the Investigation skill. If you are already proficient in the skill, you add double your proficiency bonus to checks you make with it.
(Basically, it just grants proficiency/expertise for all Perception and Investigation checks rather than a single bonus for passive scores).
Is this feat effectively balanced with the original?
dnd-5e feats homebrew balance
dnd-5e feats homebrew balance
New contributor
New contributor
edited 2 hours ago
V2Blast
19.6k355121
19.6k355121
New contributor
asked 4 hours ago
zashu
1143
1143
New contributor
New contributor
add a comment |
add a comment |
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
Your player’s concerns are unfounded, so you don’t need to homebrew a feat.
The bonuses aren't situational, so they will be hard to forget.
For passive Perception, you just add it right to the passive Perception score recorded on the sheet. Then, when you as DM need a Perception test without the players knowing there’s something to perceive, you use the passive Perception score instead of asking for a roll that would alert the players. That kind of secret check is what passive skill scores are for.
For Investigation, you just add it straight to the passive score on the sheet, too. (There isn't an reserved spot on the official character sheet, but your player can note it somewhere, and you can note it in your DM notes on the PCs.) Then just like with passive Perception, you the DM note this down, and use it every time you need a “secret” Investigation check, the way passive checks are normally made. I'm personally unclear on when passive Investigation would be used — you'd think that Investigation is hard to to anything but actively — but my lack of imagination doesn't make it harder to keep track of.
I completely misread the investigation part, that makes it way better! Thanks for the answer and, you're right, there's no need for an alternate feat :)
– zashu
4 hours ago
2
You are mistaken about Investigation. The bonus is to your scores and the bonus to a skill check is not a score.
– Szega
3 hours ago
I don't know how rpg.se stands to dndbeyond as official source, but Observant's third bullet is worded differently there: “You have a +5 bonus to your passive Wisdom (Perception) and passive Intelligence (Investigation) scores.” I could not find an errata to support this discrepancy.
– Thyzer
3 hours ago
@zashu Looks like Szega and Thyzer is right that it is to passive Investigation — I should have checked my PHB before I posted! I'm going to edit the answer, but I don't think it materially changes it, since it's still not situational. (I'm still personally unclear on what situations passive Investigation would apply to. Perhaps a subject for a new Question.)
– SevenSidedDie♦
2 hours ago
1
@V2Blast Ah, do they… 🤦♀️
– SevenSidedDie♦
2 hours ago
|
show 3 more comments
Your Answer
StackExchange.ifUsing("editor", function () {
return StackExchange.using("mathjaxEditing", function () {
StackExchange.MarkdownEditor.creationCallbacks.add(function (editor, postfix) {
StackExchange.mathjaxEditing.prepareWmdForMathJax(editor, postfix, [["\$", "\$"]]);
});
});
}, "mathjax-editing");
StackExchange.ready(function() {
var channelOptions = {
tags: "".split(" "),
id: "122"
};
initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);
StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function() {
// Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled) {
StackExchange.using("snippets", function() {
createEditor();
});
}
else {
createEditor();
}
});
function createEditor() {
StackExchange.prepareEditor({
heartbeatType: 'answer',
autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
convertImagesToLinks: false,
noModals: true,
showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
reputationToPostImages: null,
bindNavPrevention: true,
postfix: "",
imageUploader: {
brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
allowUrls: true
},
noCode: true, onDemand: true,
discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
});
}
});
zashu is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function () {
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2frpg.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f138041%2fis-this-alternate-version-of-the-observant-feat-balanced%23new-answer', 'question_page');
}
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
Your player’s concerns are unfounded, so you don’t need to homebrew a feat.
The bonuses aren't situational, so they will be hard to forget.
For passive Perception, you just add it right to the passive Perception score recorded on the sheet. Then, when you as DM need a Perception test without the players knowing there’s something to perceive, you use the passive Perception score instead of asking for a roll that would alert the players. That kind of secret check is what passive skill scores are for.
For Investigation, you just add it straight to the passive score on the sheet, too. (There isn't an reserved spot on the official character sheet, but your player can note it somewhere, and you can note it in your DM notes on the PCs.) Then just like with passive Perception, you the DM note this down, and use it every time you need a “secret” Investigation check, the way passive checks are normally made. I'm personally unclear on when passive Investigation would be used — you'd think that Investigation is hard to to anything but actively — but my lack of imagination doesn't make it harder to keep track of.
I completely misread the investigation part, that makes it way better! Thanks for the answer and, you're right, there's no need for an alternate feat :)
– zashu
4 hours ago
2
You are mistaken about Investigation. The bonus is to your scores and the bonus to a skill check is not a score.
– Szega
3 hours ago
I don't know how rpg.se stands to dndbeyond as official source, but Observant's third bullet is worded differently there: “You have a +5 bonus to your passive Wisdom (Perception) and passive Intelligence (Investigation) scores.” I could not find an errata to support this discrepancy.
– Thyzer
3 hours ago
@zashu Looks like Szega and Thyzer is right that it is to passive Investigation — I should have checked my PHB before I posted! I'm going to edit the answer, but I don't think it materially changes it, since it's still not situational. (I'm still personally unclear on what situations passive Investigation would apply to. Perhaps a subject for a new Question.)
– SevenSidedDie♦
2 hours ago
1
@V2Blast Ah, do they… 🤦♀️
– SevenSidedDie♦
2 hours ago
|
show 3 more comments
Your player’s concerns are unfounded, so you don’t need to homebrew a feat.
The bonuses aren't situational, so they will be hard to forget.
For passive Perception, you just add it right to the passive Perception score recorded on the sheet. Then, when you as DM need a Perception test without the players knowing there’s something to perceive, you use the passive Perception score instead of asking for a roll that would alert the players. That kind of secret check is what passive skill scores are for.
For Investigation, you just add it straight to the passive score on the sheet, too. (There isn't an reserved spot on the official character sheet, but your player can note it somewhere, and you can note it in your DM notes on the PCs.) Then just like with passive Perception, you the DM note this down, and use it every time you need a “secret” Investigation check, the way passive checks are normally made. I'm personally unclear on when passive Investigation would be used — you'd think that Investigation is hard to to anything but actively — but my lack of imagination doesn't make it harder to keep track of.
I completely misread the investigation part, that makes it way better! Thanks for the answer and, you're right, there's no need for an alternate feat :)
– zashu
4 hours ago
2
You are mistaken about Investigation. The bonus is to your scores and the bonus to a skill check is not a score.
– Szega
3 hours ago
I don't know how rpg.se stands to dndbeyond as official source, but Observant's third bullet is worded differently there: “You have a +5 bonus to your passive Wisdom (Perception) and passive Intelligence (Investigation) scores.” I could not find an errata to support this discrepancy.
– Thyzer
3 hours ago
@zashu Looks like Szega and Thyzer is right that it is to passive Investigation — I should have checked my PHB before I posted! I'm going to edit the answer, but I don't think it materially changes it, since it's still not situational. (I'm still personally unclear on what situations passive Investigation would apply to. Perhaps a subject for a new Question.)
– SevenSidedDie♦
2 hours ago
1
@V2Blast Ah, do they… 🤦♀️
– SevenSidedDie♦
2 hours ago
|
show 3 more comments
Your player’s concerns are unfounded, so you don’t need to homebrew a feat.
The bonuses aren't situational, so they will be hard to forget.
For passive Perception, you just add it right to the passive Perception score recorded on the sheet. Then, when you as DM need a Perception test without the players knowing there’s something to perceive, you use the passive Perception score instead of asking for a roll that would alert the players. That kind of secret check is what passive skill scores are for.
For Investigation, you just add it straight to the passive score on the sheet, too. (There isn't an reserved spot on the official character sheet, but your player can note it somewhere, and you can note it in your DM notes on the PCs.) Then just like with passive Perception, you the DM note this down, and use it every time you need a “secret” Investigation check, the way passive checks are normally made. I'm personally unclear on when passive Investigation would be used — you'd think that Investigation is hard to to anything but actively — but my lack of imagination doesn't make it harder to keep track of.
Your player’s concerns are unfounded, so you don’t need to homebrew a feat.
The bonuses aren't situational, so they will be hard to forget.
For passive Perception, you just add it right to the passive Perception score recorded on the sheet. Then, when you as DM need a Perception test without the players knowing there’s something to perceive, you use the passive Perception score instead of asking for a roll that would alert the players. That kind of secret check is what passive skill scores are for.
For Investigation, you just add it straight to the passive score on the sheet, too. (There isn't an reserved spot on the official character sheet, but your player can note it somewhere, and you can note it in your DM notes on the PCs.) Then just like with passive Perception, you the DM note this down, and use it every time you need a “secret” Investigation check, the way passive checks are normally made. I'm personally unclear on when passive Investigation would be used — you'd think that Investigation is hard to to anything but actively — but my lack of imagination doesn't make it harder to keep track of.
edited 2 hours ago
answered 4 hours ago
SevenSidedDie♦
205k29657933
205k29657933
I completely misread the investigation part, that makes it way better! Thanks for the answer and, you're right, there's no need for an alternate feat :)
– zashu
4 hours ago
2
You are mistaken about Investigation. The bonus is to your scores and the bonus to a skill check is not a score.
– Szega
3 hours ago
I don't know how rpg.se stands to dndbeyond as official source, but Observant's third bullet is worded differently there: “You have a +5 bonus to your passive Wisdom (Perception) and passive Intelligence (Investigation) scores.” I could not find an errata to support this discrepancy.
– Thyzer
3 hours ago
@zashu Looks like Szega and Thyzer is right that it is to passive Investigation — I should have checked my PHB before I posted! I'm going to edit the answer, but I don't think it materially changes it, since it's still not situational. (I'm still personally unclear on what situations passive Investigation would apply to. Perhaps a subject for a new Question.)
– SevenSidedDie♦
2 hours ago
1
@V2Blast Ah, do they… 🤦♀️
– SevenSidedDie♦
2 hours ago
|
show 3 more comments
I completely misread the investigation part, that makes it way better! Thanks for the answer and, you're right, there's no need for an alternate feat :)
– zashu
4 hours ago
2
You are mistaken about Investigation. The bonus is to your scores and the bonus to a skill check is not a score.
– Szega
3 hours ago
I don't know how rpg.se stands to dndbeyond as official source, but Observant's third bullet is worded differently there: “You have a +5 bonus to your passive Wisdom (Perception) and passive Intelligence (Investigation) scores.” I could not find an errata to support this discrepancy.
– Thyzer
3 hours ago
@zashu Looks like Szega and Thyzer is right that it is to passive Investigation — I should have checked my PHB before I posted! I'm going to edit the answer, but I don't think it materially changes it, since it's still not situational. (I'm still personally unclear on what situations passive Investigation would apply to. Perhaps a subject for a new Question.)
– SevenSidedDie♦
2 hours ago
1
@V2Blast Ah, do they… 🤦♀️
– SevenSidedDie♦
2 hours ago
I completely misread the investigation part, that makes it way better! Thanks for the answer and, you're right, there's no need for an alternate feat :)
– zashu
4 hours ago
I completely misread the investigation part, that makes it way better! Thanks for the answer and, you're right, there's no need for an alternate feat :)
– zashu
4 hours ago
2
2
You are mistaken about Investigation. The bonus is to your scores and the bonus to a skill check is not a score.
– Szega
3 hours ago
You are mistaken about Investigation. The bonus is to your scores and the bonus to a skill check is not a score.
– Szega
3 hours ago
I don't know how rpg.se stands to dndbeyond as official source, but Observant's third bullet is worded differently there: “You have a +5 bonus to your passive Wisdom (Perception) and passive Intelligence (Investigation) scores.” I could not find an errata to support this discrepancy.
– Thyzer
3 hours ago
I don't know how rpg.se stands to dndbeyond as official source, but Observant's third bullet is worded differently there: “You have a +5 bonus to your passive Wisdom (Perception) and passive Intelligence (Investigation) scores.” I could not find an errata to support this discrepancy.
– Thyzer
3 hours ago
@zashu Looks like Szega and Thyzer is right that it is to passive Investigation — I should have checked my PHB before I posted! I'm going to edit the answer, but I don't think it materially changes it, since it's still not situational. (I'm still personally unclear on what situations passive Investigation would apply to. Perhaps a subject for a new Question.)
– SevenSidedDie♦
2 hours ago
@zashu Looks like Szega and Thyzer is right that it is to passive Investigation — I should have checked my PHB before I posted! I'm going to edit the answer, but I don't think it materially changes it, since it's still not situational. (I'm still personally unclear on what situations passive Investigation would apply to. Perhaps a subject for a new Question.)
– SevenSidedDie♦
2 hours ago
1
1
@V2Blast Ah, do they… 🤦♀️
– SevenSidedDie♦
2 hours ago
@V2Blast Ah, do they… 🤦♀️
– SevenSidedDie♦
2 hours ago
|
show 3 more comments
zashu is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
zashu is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
zashu is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
zashu is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
Thanks for contributing an answer to Role-playing Games Stack Exchange!
- Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!
But avoid …
- Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.
- Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.
Use MathJax to format equations. MathJax reference.
To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.
Some of your past answers have not been well-received, and you're in danger of being blocked from answering.
Please pay close attention to the following guidance:
- Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!
But avoid …
- Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.
- Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.
To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function () {
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2frpg.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f138041%2fis-this-alternate-version-of-the-observant-feat-balanced%23new-answer', 'question_page');
}
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown