Plural noun or singular noun + possessive
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When the 14th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution was ratified on July 9, 1868 —150 years ago this Monday — it closed the door on schemes that aimed to make the U.S. a white man’s country. (source)
I wonder why it is not "a white men's country". We often speak of men's clothes and men's room. Consider:
This is the only large dogs' shelter in the area.
This is the only large dog's shelter in the area.
Which one sounds more natural or idiomatic?
grammatical-number possessives
asked Sep 12 at 3:38
Deancue
241111
bumped to the homepage by Community♦ 1 hour ago
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When the 14th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution was ratified on July 9, 1868 —150 years ago this Monday — it closed the door on schemes that aimed to make the U.S. a white man’s country. (source)
I wonder why it is not "a white men's country". We often speak of men's clothes and men's room. Consider:
This is the only large dogs' shelter in the area.
This is the only large dog's shelter in the area.
Which one sounds more natural or idiomatic?
grammatical-number possessives
asked Sep 12 at 3:38
Deancue
241111
bumped to the homepage by Community♦ 1 hour ago
This question has answers that may be good or bad; the system has marked it active so that they can be reviewed.
2
... only large dog shelter...
– Jim
Sep 12 at 3:40
@Jim Right, not the best example, since attributive nouns also work in that example. Trying to come up with a better one.
– Deancue
Sep 12 at 4:09
I recommend you use the same construction in the secondary example, i.e. "This is a large dogs' shelter" vs "this is a large dog's shelter". Otherwise, you're complicating the question...
– Chappo
Sep 12 at 11:12
It's a rich man's world, the working man's blues, poor man's poison, and so on.
– Matt
Sep 13 at 22:59
1
Dog's vs. dogs' might not be the best example even if we really did say dog(')s(') shelter, because they're pronounced equivalently, so you won't get the same sort of strong native-speaker intuitions that you get with an example like man's vs. men's.
– ruakh
Sep 14 at 1:52
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When the 14th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution was ratified on July 9, 1868 —150 years ago this Monday — it closed the door on schemes that aimed to make the U.S. a white man’s country. (source)
I wonder why it is not "a white men's country". We often speak of men's clothes and men's room. Consider:
This is the only large dogs' shelter in the area.
This is the only large dog's shelter in the area.
Which one sounds more natural or idiomatic?
grammatical-number possessives
asked Sep 12 at 3:38
Deancue
241111
When the 14th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution was ratified on July 9, 1868 —150 years ago this Monday — it closed the door on schemes that aimed to make the U.S. a white man’s country. (source)
I wonder why it is not "a white men's country". We often speak of men's clothes and men's room. Consider:
This is the only large dogs' shelter in the area.
This is the only large dog's shelter in the area.
Which one sounds more natural or idiomatic?
grammatical-number possessives
grammatical-number possessives
asked Sep 12 at 3:38
Deancue
241111
asked Sep 12 at 3:38
Deancue
241111
asked Sep 12 at 3:38
Deancue
241111
asked Sep 12 at 3:38
Deancue
241111
asked Sep 12 at 3:38
Deancue
241111
241111
bumped to the homepage by Community♦ 1 hour ago
This question has answers that may be good or bad; the system has marked it active so that they can be reviewed.
bumped to the homepage by Community♦ 1 hour ago
This question has answers that may be good or bad; the system has marked it active so that they can be reviewed.
2
... only large dog shelter...
– Jim
Sep 12 at 3:40
@Jim Right, not the best example, since attributive nouns also work in that example. Trying to come up with a better one.
– Deancue
Sep 12 at 4:09
I recommend you use the same construction in the secondary example, i.e. "This is a large dogs' shelter" vs "this is a large dog's shelter". Otherwise, you're complicating the question...
– Chappo
Sep 12 at 11:12
It's a rich man's world, the working man's blues, poor man's poison, and so on.
– Matt
Sep 13 at 22:59
1
Dog's vs. dogs' might not be the best example even if we really did say dog(')s(') shelter, because they're pronounced equivalently, so you won't get the same sort of strong native-speaker intuitions that you get with an example like man's vs. men's.
– ruakh
Sep 14 at 1:52
add a comment |
2
... only large dog shelter...
– Jim
Sep 12 at 3:40
@Jim Right, not the best example, since attributive nouns also work in that example. Trying to come up with a better one.
– Deancue
Sep 12 at 4:09
I recommend you use the same construction in the secondary example, i.e. "This is a large dogs' shelter" vs "this is a large dog's shelter". Otherwise, you're complicating the question...
– Chappo
Sep 12 at 11:12
It's a rich man's world, the working man's blues, poor man's poison, and so on.
– Matt
Sep 13 at 22:59
1
Dog's vs. dogs' might not be the best example even if we really did say dog(')s(') shelter, because they're pronounced equivalently, so you won't get the same sort of strong native-speaker intuitions that you get with an example like man's vs. men's.
– ruakh
Sep 14 at 1:52
2
2
... only large dog shelter...
– Jim
Sep 12 at 3:40
... only large dog shelter...
– Jim
Sep 12 at 3:40
@Jim Right, not the best example, since attributive nouns also work in that example. Trying to come up with a better one.
– Deancue
Sep 12 at 4:09
@Jim Right, not the best example, since attributive nouns also work in that example. Trying to come up with a better one.
– Deancue
Sep 12 at 4:09
I recommend you use the same construction in the secondary example, i.e. "This is a large dogs' shelter" vs "this is a large dog's shelter". Otherwise, you're complicating the question...
– Chappo
Sep 12 at 11:12
I recommend you use the same construction in the secondary example, i.e. "This is a large dogs' shelter" vs "this is a large dog's shelter". Otherwise, you're complicating the question...
– Chappo
Sep 12 at 11:12
It's a rich man's world, the working man's blues, poor man's poison, and so on.
– Matt
Sep 13 at 22:59
It's a rich man's world, the working man's blues, poor man's poison, and so on.
– Matt
Sep 13 at 22:59
1
1
Dog's vs. dogs' might not be the best example even if we really did say dog(')s(') shelter, because they're pronounced equivalently, so you won't get the same sort of strong native-speaker intuitions that you get with an example like man's vs. men's.
– ruakh
Sep 14 at 1:52
Dog's vs. dogs' might not be the best example even if we really did say dog(')s(') shelter, because they're pronounced equivalently, so you won't get the same sort of strong native-speaker intuitions that you get with an example like man's vs. men's.
– ruakh
Sep 14 at 1:52
add a comment |
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It's standard usage to say "a white man's country", whereas it would be unusual to say "a white men's country", since the expectation is that an indefinite article is followed by a singular noun.
In this particular context there's a further complication in that it's ambiguous whether the indefinite article relates to "man" (in other words, it's a country belonging to the white man) or to "country" (in which "white man's" or "white men's" acts as adjectival phrases). In the former construction, "a white men's" would be ungrammatical, whereas in the latter construction it would be perfectly fine grammatically. Such ambiguity is sometimes avoided by hyphenating the words in the adjectival phrase: "a white-man's country" or "a white-men's country".
Note that while the non-gendered expression "a white person's country" is often preferable as it's more inclusive, in this particular historical context the gendered usage could be seen as appropriate.
It would be grammatically correct to delete the indefinite article and use the plural - "schemes that aimed to make the U.S. white men’s country" - but this is not a common construction. If you were intent on using the plural men, "schemes that aimed to make the U.S. a country for white men" would be a suitable alternative.
answered Sep 12 at 11:03
Chappo
2,47341225
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It's standard usage to say "a white man's country", whereas it would be unusual to say "a white men's country", since the expectation is that an indefinite article is followed by a singular noun.
In this particular context there's a further complication in that it's ambiguous whether the indefinite article relates to "man" (in other words, it's a country belonging to the white man) or to "country" (in which "white man's" or "white men's" acts as adjectival phrases). In the former construction, "a white men's" would be ungrammatical, whereas in the latter construction it would be perfectly fine grammatically. Such ambiguity is sometimes avoided by hyphenating the words in the adjectival phrase: "a white-man's country" or "a white-men's country".
Note that while the non-gendered expression "a white person's country" is often preferable as it's more inclusive, in this particular historical context the gendered usage could be seen as appropriate.
It would be grammatically correct to delete the indefinite article and use the plural - "schemes that aimed to make the U.S. white men’s country" - but this is not a common construction. If you were intent on using the plural men, "schemes that aimed to make the U.S. a country for white men" would be a suitable alternative.
answered Sep 12 at 11:03
Chappo
2,47341225
add a comment |
up vote
0
down vote
It's standard usage to say "a white man's country", whereas it would be unusual to say "a white men's country", since the expectation is that an indefinite article is followed by a singular noun.
In this particular context there's a further complication in that it's ambiguous whether the indefinite article relates to "man" (in other words, it's a country belonging to the white man) or to "country" (in which "white man's" or "white men's" acts as adjectival phrases). In the former construction, "a white men's" would be ungrammatical, whereas in the latter construction it would be perfectly fine grammatically. Such ambiguity is sometimes avoided by hyphenating the words in the adjectival phrase: "a white-man's country" or "a white-men's country".
Note that while the non-gendered expression "a white person's country" is often preferable as it's more inclusive, in this particular historical context the gendered usage could be seen as appropriate.
It would be grammatically correct to delete the indefinite article and use the plural - "schemes that aimed to make the U.S. white men’s country" - but this is not a common construction. If you were intent on using the plural men, "schemes that aimed to make the U.S. a country for white men" would be a suitable alternative.
answered Sep 12 at 11:03
Chappo
2,47341225
add a comment |
up vote
0
down vote
up vote
0
down vote
It's standard usage to say "a white man's country", whereas it would be unusual to say "a white men's country", since the expectation is that an indefinite article is followed by a singular noun.
In this particular context there's a further complication in that it's ambiguous whether the indefinite article relates to "man" (in other words, it's a country belonging to the white man) or to "country" (in which "white man's" or "white men's" acts as adjectival phrases). In the former construction, "a white men's" would be ungrammatical, whereas in the latter construction it would be perfectly fine grammatically. Such ambiguity is sometimes avoided by hyphenating the words in the adjectival phrase: "a white-man's country" or "a white-men's country".
Note that while the non-gendered expression "a white person's country" is often preferable as it's more inclusive, in this particular historical context the gendered usage could be seen as appropriate.
It would be grammatically correct to delete the indefinite article and use the plural - "schemes that aimed to make the U.S. white men’s country" - but this is not a common construction. If you were intent on using the plural men, "schemes that aimed to make the U.S. a country for white men" would be a suitable alternative.
answered Sep 12 at 11:03
Chappo
2,47341225
It's standard usage to say "a white man's country", whereas it would be unusual to say "a white men's country", since the expectation is that an indefinite article is followed by a singular noun.
In this particular context there's a further complication in that it's ambiguous whether the indefinite article relates to "man" (in other words, it's a country belonging to the white man) or to "country" (in which "white man's" or "white men's" acts as adjectival phrases). In the former construction, "a white men's" would be ungrammatical, whereas in the latter construction it would be perfectly fine grammatically. Such ambiguity is sometimes avoided by hyphenating the words in the adjectival phrase: "a white-man's country" or "a white-men's country".
Note that while the non-gendered expression "a white person's country" is often preferable as it's more inclusive, in this particular historical context the gendered usage could be seen as appropriate.
It would be grammatically correct to delete the indefinite article and use the plural - "schemes that aimed to make the U.S. white men’s country" - but this is not a common construction. If you were intent on using the plural men, "schemes that aimed to make the U.S. a country for white men" would be a suitable alternative.
answered Sep 12 at 11:03
Chappo
2,47341225
edited Sep 13 at 22:49
answered Sep 12 at 11:03
Chappo
2,47341225
answered Sep 12 at 11:03
Chappo
2,47341225
answered Sep 12 at 11:03
Chappo
2,47341225
2,47341225
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2
... only large dog shelter...
– Jim
Sep 12 at 3:40
@Jim Right, not the best example, since attributive nouns also work in that example. Trying to come up with a better one.
– Deancue
Sep 12 at 4:09
I recommend you use the same construction in the secondary example, i.e. "This is a large dogs' shelter" vs "this is a large dog's shelter". Otherwise, you're complicating the question...
– Chappo
Sep 12 at 11:12
It's a rich man's world, the working man's blues, poor man's poison, and so on.
– Matt
Sep 13 at 22:59
1
Dog's vs. dogs' might not be the best example even if we really did say dog(')s(') shelter, because they're pronounced equivalently, so you won't get the same sort of strong native-speaker intuitions that you get with an example like man's vs. men's.
– ruakh
Sep 14 at 1:52