A religious supervisor doing the prayer, should I do?
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My supervisor and all his other doctoral students are religious practicing, while I don't, as a "non religious".
We never discuss religion together, but sometimes they all leave to pray together, and they let me alone which make me uncomfortable.
Surely, if they know I'm "non religious" it will annoy them.
how do I react to a situation in which they all go to pray except me?
Do you think I have to open this debate with them, and close it once and for all?
Should I to pretend to be like them, pray with them?
EDIT: I am in a predominantly Muslim country, MENA .. And the fact of not being Muslim is not very welcomed in general .. For example eating during the month of Ramadan is not legal, and can be a source of physical or mental violence in the street. So even if my supervisor is kind enough as well as his other doctoral student, but they will be disappointed if he know my situation.
supervision religious-issues
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My supervisor and all his other doctoral students are religious practicing, while I don't, as a "non religious".
We never discuss religion together, but sometimes they all leave to pray together, and they let me alone which make me uncomfortable.
Surely, if they know I'm "non religious" it will annoy them.
how do I react to a situation in which they all go to pray except me?
Do you think I have to open this debate with them, and close it once and for all?
Should I to pretend to be like them, pray with them?
EDIT: I am in a predominantly Muslim country, MENA .. And the fact of not being Muslim is not very welcomed in general .. For example eating during the month of Ramadan is not legal, and can be a source of physical or mental violence in the street. So even if my supervisor is kind enough as well as his other doctoral student, but they will be disappointed if he know my situation.
supervision religious-issues
New contributor
6
Aren’t they leaving to go pray somewhere else to not make you feel uncomfortable?
– Jon Custer
7 hours ago
3
While I don't know your location, my default answer to this would be "no, you should not do anything that makes you uncomfortable and surely not pretend to be religious in front of your supervisor or anybody else". The nuances on how to deal with this might be easier to suggest if you give us some hint of your location. But, what I'm really interested in is your statement that "Surely if they knew I am not religious it will annoy them" - how do you know that? Have you seen them treat non-religious students unfavourably, is it your funded or unfunded assumption, or something else?
– penelope
7 hours ago
1
Do they ask you to accompany them? I'm trying to figure out why you are uncomfortable with them going to pray at the place to pray. So, it likely isn't that they are leaving to pray, it is that you are the one who does not do so, and you are wondering if that will affect your relationships in the group. Is there any evidence that there is a problem? If so, follow the advice below...
– Jon Custer
7 hours ago
1
Yes, I can imagine some of the problems you have to face (from your descriptions) - but I can't quite put myself in your situation or give advice. Maybe you can edit this additional information in (about location and culture; maybe the example you give places it all in good context) for more pointed answers. My experiences are from international labs with a big cultural variation - so religion has minor to no influence on the supervisor-student relationship (although we have one actively and openly practising faculty and only one such student, not working together)
– penelope
7 hours ago
2
I feel this question requires a much more precise location. Muslim countries vary wildly regarding the tolerance of non religious people. While in some of these countries it would be fine to "come out", in many of these you could be risking your life or your scholarship. So obviously whether or not talking to your supervisor is appropriate depends completely in which case you are. MENA is huge, so it does not really say much about which possibility you are in.
– Bakuriu
4 hours ago
|
show 4 more comments
up vote
13
down vote
favorite
up vote
13
down vote
favorite
My supervisor and all his other doctoral students are religious practicing, while I don't, as a "non religious".
We never discuss religion together, but sometimes they all leave to pray together, and they let me alone which make me uncomfortable.
Surely, if they know I'm "non religious" it will annoy them.
how do I react to a situation in which they all go to pray except me?
Do you think I have to open this debate with them, and close it once and for all?
Should I to pretend to be like them, pray with them?
EDIT: I am in a predominantly Muslim country, MENA .. And the fact of not being Muslim is not very welcomed in general .. For example eating during the month of Ramadan is not legal, and can be a source of physical or mental violence in the street. So even if my supervisor is kind enough as well as his other doctoral student, but they will be disappointed if he know my situation.
supervision religious-issues
New contributor
My supervisor and all his other doctoral students are religious practicing, while I don't, as a "non religious".
We never discuss religion together, but sometimes they all leave to pray together, and they let me alone which make me uncomfortable.
Surely, if they know I'm "non religious" it will annoy them.
how do I react to a situation in which they all go to pray except me?
Do you think I have to open this debate with them, and close it once and for all?
Should I to pretend to be like them, pray with them?
EDIT: I am in a predominantly Muslim country, MENA .. And the fact of not being Muslim is not very welcomed in general .. For example eating during the month of Ramadan is not legal, and can be a source of physical or mental violence in the street. So even if my supervisor is kind enough as well as his other doctoral student, but they will be disappointed if he know my situation.
supervision religious-issues
supervision religious-issues
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New contributor
edited 7 hours ago
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asked 7 hours ago
Motaka
21117
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6
Aren’t they leaving to go pray somewhere else to not make you feel uncomfortable?
– Jon Custer
7 hours ago
3
While I don't know your location, my default answer to this would be "no, you should not do anything that makes you uncomfortable and surely not pretend to be religious in front of your supervisor or anybody else". The nuances on how to deal with this might be easier to suggest if you give us some hint of your location. But, what I'm really interested in is your statement that "Surely if they knew I am not religious it will annoy them" - how do you know that? Have you seen them treat non-religious students unfavourably, is it your funded or unfunded assumption, or something else?
– penelope
7 hours ago
1
Do they ask you to accompany them? I'm trying to figure out why you are uncomfortable with them going to pray at the place to pray. So, it likely isn't that they are leaving to pray, it is that you are the one who does not do so, and you are wondering if that will affect your relationships in the group. Is there any evidence that there is a problem? If so, follow the advice below...
– Jon Custer
7 hours ago
1
Yes, I can imagine some of the problems you have to face (from your descriptions) - but I can't quite put myself in your situation or give advice. Maybe you can edit this additional information in (about location and culture; maybe the example you give places it all in good context) for more pointed answers. My experiences are from international labs with a big cultural variation - so religion has minor to no influence on the supervisor-student relationship (although we have one actively and openly practising faculty and only one such student, not working together)
– penelope
7 hours ago
2
I feel this question requires a much more precise location. Muslim countries vary wildly regarding the tolerance of non religious people. While in some of these countries it would be fine to "come out", in many of these you could be risking your life or your scholarship. So obviously whether or not talking to your supervisor is appropriate depends completely in which case you are. MENA is huge, so it does not really say much about which possibility you are in.
– Bakuriu
4 hours ago
|
show 4 more comments
6
Aren’t they leaving to go pray somewhere else to not make you feel uncomfortable?
– Jon Custer
7 hours ago
3
While I don't know your location, my default answer to this would be "no, you should not do anything that makes you uncomfortable and surely not pretend to be religious in front of your supervisor or anybody else". The nuances on how to deal with this might be easier to suggest if you give us some hint of your location. But, what I'm really interested in is your statement that "Surely if they knew I am not religious it will annoy them" - how do you know that? Have you seen them treat non-religious students unfavourably, is it your funded or unfunded assumption, or something else?
– penelope
7 hours ago
1
Do they ask you to accompany them? I'm trying to figure out why you are uncomfortable with them going to pray at the place to pray. So, it likely isn't that they are leaving to pray, it is that you are the one who does not do so, and you are wondering if that will affect your relationships in the group. Is there any evidence that there is a problem? If so, follow the advice below...
– Jon Custer
7 hours ago
1
Yes, I can imagine some of the problems you have to face (from your descriptions) - but I can't quite put myself in your situation or give advice. Maybe you can edit this additional information in (about location and culture; maybe the example you give places it all in good context) for more pointed answers. My experiences are from international labs with a big cultural variation - so religion has minor to no influence on the supervisor-student relationship (although we have one actively and openly practising faculty and only one such student, not working together)
– penelope
7 hours ago
2
I feel this question requires a much more precise location. Muslim countries vary wildly regarding the tolerance of non religious people. While in some of these countries it would be fine to "come out", in many of these you could be risking your life or your scholarship. So obviously whether or not talking to your supervisor is appropriate depends completely in which case you are. MENA is huge, so it does not really say much about which possibility you are in.
– Bakuriu
4 hours ago
6
6
Aren’t they leaving to go pray somewhere else to not make you feel uncomfortable?
– Jon Custer
7 hours ago
Aren’t they leaving to go pray somewhere else to not make you feel uncomfortable?
– Jon Custer
7 hours ago
3
3
While I don't know your location, my default answer to this would be "no, you should not do anything that makes you uncomfortable and surely not pretend to be religious in front of your supervisor or anybody else". The nuances on how to deal with this might be easier to suggest if you give us some hint of your location. But, what I'm really interested in is your statement that "Surely if they knew I am not religious it will annoy them" - how do you know that? Have you seen them treat non-religious students unfavourably, is it your funded or unfunded assumption, or something else?
– penelope
7 hours ago
While I don't know your location, my default answer to this would be "no, you should not do anything that makes you uncomfortable and surely not pretend to be religious in front of your supervisor or anybody else". The nuances on how to deal with this might be easier to suggest if you give us some hint of your location. But, what I'm really interested in is your statement that "Surely if they knew I am not religious it will annoy them" - how do you know that? Have you seen them treat non-religious students unfavourably, is it your funded or unfunded assumption, or something else?
– penelope
7 hours ago
1
1
Do they ask you to accompany them? I'm trying to figure out why you are uncomfortable with them going to pray at the place to pray. So, it likely isn't that they are leaving to pray, it is that you are the one who does not do so, and you are wondering if that will affect your relationships in the group. Is there any evidence that there is a problem? If so, follow the advice below...
– Jon Custer
7 hours ago
Do they ask you to accompany them? I'm trying to figure out why you are uncomfortable with them going to pray at the place to pray. So, it likely isn't that they are leaving to pray, it is that you are the one who does not do so, and you are wondering if that will affect your relationships in the group. Is there any evidence that there is a problem? If so, follow the advice below...
– Jon Custer
7 hours ago
1
1
Yes, I can imagine some of the problems you have to face (from your descriptions) - but I can't quite put myself in your situation or give advice. Maybe you can edit this additional information in (about location and culture; maybe the example you give places it all in good context) for more pointed answers. My experiences are from international labs with a big cultural variation - so religion has minor to no influence on the supervisor-student relationship (although we have one actively and openly practising faculty and only one such student, not working together)
– penelope
7 hours ago
Yes, I can imagine some of the problems you have to face (from your descriptions) - but I can't quite put myself in your situation or give advice. Maybe you can edit this additional information in (about location and culture; maybe the example you give places it all in good context) for more pointed answers. My experiences are from international labs with a big cultural variation - so religion has minor to no influence on the supervisor-student relationship (although we have one actively and openly practising faculty and only one such student, not working together)
– penelope
7 hours ago
2
2
I feel this question requires a much more precise location. Muslim countries vary wildly regarding the tolerance of non religious people. While in some of these countries it would be fine to "come out", in many of these you could be risking your life or your scholarship. So obviously whether or not talking to your supervisor is appropriate depends completely in which case you are. MENA is huge, so it does not really say much about which possibility you are in.
– Bakuriu
4 hours ago
I feel this question requires a much more precise location. Muslim countries vary wildly regarding the tolerance of non religious people. While in some of these countries it would be fine to "come out", in many of these you could be risking your life or your scholarship. So obviously whether or not talking to your supervisor is appropriate depends completely in which case you are. MENA is huge, so it does not really say much about which possibility you are in.
– Bakuriu
4 hours ago
|
show 4 more comments
6 Answers
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There are situations in which you need to be sensitive to others and they should extend the same courtesy to you. However, there are some places in which religious feeling is so strong as to overcome such sentiment. It can be dangerous in many ways (academic, physical,...) to disagree with religious "consensus" in such places. There are some colleges in the US, in fact, in which this is a problem.
However, to "fake" being a member of a religion is equally dangerous, so you need to be careful. I don't know what people's assumptions about you are. But if they are aware that you aren't a member/adherent of the dominant faith you are probably best advised not to participate. If they are not aware and are making assumptions that you are just an apostate then it can be very dangerous.
If your professor has an open enough attitude you can speak with him/her for advice. But the first rule is to be safe. If you are in a place in which you are required to be a "believer" and you are not, you should work to find a more compatible place. Religious sentiment is often other-than-rational.
2
"You should work to find a more compatible place" This is the best solution..Thank you
– Motaka
6 hours ago
add a comment |
up vote
6
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~Note: I am an American, and while I studied at a largely international college with large populations of all major religions, my answer may not accurately reflect cultural expectations in other countries.~
First of all, I do not think that you should pretend to be religious if you are not. It sounds like it would be quite uncomfortable for you, and could lead to many negative feelings if they found out that you had been lying.
Instead, it sounds like you should have a conversation with your professor. It is not reasonable to ask him or other students to refrain from praying. However, it seems like your biggest concern is that it feels awkward and you do not want them to judge you for being non-religious. The easiest way to deal with this is to tell your professor about your concerns and ask honestly if he is bothered by it.
Tell him that you have noticed that he and the other students go pray together and that you have felt uncomfortable by being the only one who does not because you worry that he could be annoyed or feel disrespected by your lack of participation. He will likely say that it does not bother him that you are not religious, although he may be curious as to why you are not if that is the norm.
At the end of the day, if he is uncomfortable having a non-religious student, he may not be a good fit for you. Knowing that will allow you to decide what to do next. It may be possible to change advisors or it may not, but you won't lose anything by having a polite and honest conversation.
New contributor
Thank you for your answer, as you said, the main thing is to be honest with yourself and with others, but I think It's not to me to open a this discussion, but if they want to discuss someday I will be honest.
– Motaka
7 hours ago
add a comment |
up vote
4
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I am in the U.S., obviously a very different culture.
The way I think things OUGHT to work is this: If these people you work with have different religious beliefs than you and so periodically go off and pray or do whatever related to their religion, they should not pressure you to participate or penalize you in any way for not participating, and likewise you should not pressure them to not do this. They have the right to practice their religion, and you have the right to practice yours or not practice any.
I don't see why this should be any different than any other difference of interests. Suppose I worked with a group of people who, say, all loved to eat Italian food, and I don't like Italian food, and periodically they all go to lunch together at an Italian restaurant. It would be rude for them to pressure me to eat Italian food just because they like it. But it would be even more rude for me to say they shouldn't eat Italian food because I don't like it, or to complain that I am left out because I don't share their taste in food.
I think you should just accept that you don't share this particular interest with your co-workers and that this inevitably means that you will not share certain activities with them. I'd say, so what?
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I grew up in a Muslim-majority country. Do's and don'ts:
Do show respect for their religion. That means avoid doing things like comment on how inconvenient it must be to pray five times a day, don't try to get them to eat non-halal things, don't invite them to lunch during Ramadan, etc.
Do do as they do, if possible and not inconvenient. For example if you take lunch together, order/pack something halal. Unless you have special dietary requirements that require you to eat pork, don't eat pork when with them.
Do dress conservatively. If your institution has a dress code, follow that. If you're female, you can usually refuse to wear the hijab if it makes you uncomfortable (depends on country however), but still dress conservatively - e.g. don't wear something sleeveless.
Don't pretend to be Muslim. You can't fake it. Learning how to pray in the religion takes time; the chant they use is nontrivial as well.
Don't pretend to be Muslim #2: just as important, once you identify as Muslim you could be bound to obey a different set of laws. Sharia criminalizes things which are fine in contemporary Western culture, such as homosexuality. If you're homosexual but identify as Muslim, you could bring the religious police on your head.
Don't pretend to be Muslim #3: Further, depending on which country you're in, you could find it really hard to leave the religion. Potential problems you could face go up to death. In the meantime it's not just you that's affected: in many countries, a Muslim person can only marry another Muslim person; plus any child born to a Muslim is automatically a Muslim.
tl; dr: Leave them to practice their religion and don't flaunt the fact that you're not a Muslim. They should do the same to you.
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I also spent a few years in a MENA country in an academic environment. As you say, eating food/drinking water in public during Ramadan was illegal, as were certain standards of dress, however my experience over the years was that this did not in any way mean that the individuals I lived and worked with (including those who were practicing Muslims) were by default unaccepting of my non-religiousness. I am curious why you say
Surely, if they know I'm "non religious" it will annoy them.
and
So even if my supervisor is kind enough as well as his other doctoral student, but they will be disappointed if he know my situation.
Perhaps you have more reason for believing these than you have included in your question, however, in my personal experience, none of my Muslim friends/co-workers ever expected me to conform to their religion. I certainly never pretended to be Muslim, and like other answers, suggest that you do not do this particularly if it does not make you comfortable.
My advice is that perhaps this does not need to a bigger issue than any other lifestyle difference that you might have with your co-workers, and not to read too deeply into it (as in assuming they have some kind of expectation of you), and don't assume government polices affect individual expectations, unless they give you reason for it. By all means, if you feel unhealthy pressure or feel unsafe, don't stay. Otherwise, similar situations where there is a difference in lifestyle/culture between members of the group occur all the time.
Perhaps another group you join might go out regularly for coffee/alcohol when you are unable to join for dietary/religious reasons, or in another group everyone else has kids, so leaves early, or do play-dates on the weekend. But in such situations, the activity you have to miss out on is surely not the only way to build rapport/respect within your group and strengthen your relationship with your supervisor. So if there is no actual pressure for you to have the same religious beliefs, try to decide if you're bothered by their religious belief. If not, then focus your energy on finding some other topic/hobby that you have in common. There's certainly no need to change yourself.
New contributor
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how do I react to a situation in which they all go to pray except me?
Do you think I have to open this debate with them, and close it once
and for all? Should I to pretend to be like them, pray with them?
It is up to you. If you feel encouraged to accompany them, then you can tell them to inform you, and tell them that you want to accompany them. Otherwise you should not go even if they invite you, you should tell them not to invite you as you do not prefer to.
Religion is something personal. Even in Muslim countries, no one can force you to pray.
In my opinion you should not open debate about this unless if you are interested about knowing more about what they are doing.
Your supervisor has certain rules and regulations to evaluate you. None of them can be praying. Even in the most religious countries. So you should not worry.
An no, you should not pretend to be like them and pray like them. If you do this, you are wasting your time. Your prayers should have meaning to you, and should make you feel better. If this is not the case with you, no one, including God, need it from you.
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6 Answers
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6 Answers
6
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
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active
oldest
votes
up vote
9
down vote
There are situations in which you need to be sensitive to others and they should extend the same courtesy to you. However, there are some places in which religious feeling is so strong as to overcome such sentiment. It can be dangerous in many ways (academic, physical,...) to disagree with religious "consensus" in such places. There are some colleges in the US, in fact, in which this is a problem.
However, to "fake" being a member of a religion is equally dangerous, so you need to be careful. I don't know what people's assumptions about you are. But if they are aware that you aren't a member/adherent of the dominant faith you are probably best advised not to participate. If they are not aware and are making assumptions that you are just an apostate then it can be very dangerous.
If your professor has an open enough attitude you can speak with him/her for advice. But the first rule is to be safe. If you are in a place in which you are required to be a "believer" and you are not, you should work to find a more compatible place. Religious sentiment is often other-than-rational.
2
"You should work to find a more compatible place" This is the best solution..Thank you
– Motaka
6 hours ago
add a comment |
up vote
9
down vote
There are situations in which you need to be sensitive to others and they should extend the same courtesy to you. However, there are some places in which religious feeling is so strong as to overcome such sentiment. It can be dangerous in many ways (academic, physical,...) to disagree with religious "consensus" in such places. There are some colleges in the US, in fact, in which this is a problem.
However, to "fake" being a member of a religion is equally dangerous, so you need to be careful. I don't know what people's assumptions about you are. But if they are aware that you aren't a member/adherent of the dominant faith you are probably best advised not to participate. If they are not aware and are making assumptions that you are just an apostate then it can be very dangerous.
If your professor has an open enough attitude you can speak with him/her for advice. But the first rule is to be safe. If you are in a place in which you are required to be a "believer" and you are not, you should work to find a more compatible place. Religious sentiment is often other-than-rational.
2
"You should work to find a more compatible place" This is the best solution..Thank you
– Motaka
6 hours ago
add a comment |
up vote
9
down vote
up vote
9
down vote
There are situations in which you need to be sensitive to others and they should extend the same courtesy to you. However, there are some places in which religious feeling is so strong as to overcome such sentiment. It can be dangerous in many ways (academic, physical,...) to disagree with religious "consensus" in such places. There are some colleges in the US, in fact, in which this is a problem.
However, to "fake" being a member of a religion is equally dangerous, so you need to be careful. I don't know what people's assumptions about you are. But if they are aware that you aren't a member/adherent of the dominant faith you are probably best advised not to participate. If they are not aware and are making assumptions that you are just an apostate then it can be very dangerous.
If your professor has an open enough attitude you can speak with him/her for advice. But the first rule is to be safe. If you are in a place in which you are required to be a "believer" and you are not, you should work to find a more compatible place. Religious sentiment is often other-than-rational.
There are situations in which you need to be sensitive to others and they should extend the same courtesy to you. However, there are some places in which religious feeling is so strong as to overcome such sentiment. It can be dangerous in many ways (academic, physical,...) to disagree with religious "consensus" in such places. There are some colleges in the US, in fact, in which this is a problem.
However, to "fake" being a member of a religion is equally dangerous, so you need to be careful. I don't know what people's assumptions about you are. But if they are aware that you aren't a member/adherent of the dominant faith you are probably best advised not to participate. If they are not aware and are making assumptions that you are just an apostate then it can be very dangerous.
If your professor has an open enough attitude you can speak with him/her for advice. But the first rule is to be safe. If you are in a place in which you are required to be a "believer" and you are not, you should work to find a more compatible place. Religious sentiment is often other-than-rational.
answered 7 hours ago
Buffy
33.3k7103173
33.3k7103173
2
"You should work to find a more compatible place" This is the best solution..Thank you
– Motaka
6 hours ago
add a comment |
2
"You should work to find a more compatible place" This is the best solution..Thank you
– Motaka
6 hours ago
2
2
"You should work to find a more compatible place" This is the best solution..Thank you
– Motaka
6 hours ago
"You should work to find a more compatible place" This is the best solution..Thank you
– Motaka
6 hours ago
add a comment |
up vote
6
down vote
~Note: I am an American, and while I studied at a largely international college with large populations of all major religions, my answer may not accurately reflect cultural expectations in other countries.~
First of all, I do not think that you should pretend to be religious if you are not. It sounds like it would be quite uncomfortable for you, and could lead to many negative feelings if they found out that you had been lying.
Instead, it sounds like you should have a conversation with your professor. It is not reasonable to ask him or other students to refrain from praying. However, it seems like your biggest concern is that it feels awkward and you do not want them to judge you for being non-religious. The easiest way to deal with this is to tell your professor about your concerns and ask honestly if he is bothered by it.
Tell him that you have noticed that he and the other students go pray together and that you have felt uncomfortable by being the only one who does not because you worry that he could be annoyed or feel disrespected by your lack of participation. He will likely say that it does not bother him that you are not religious, although he may be curious as to why you are not if that is the norm.
At the end of the day, if he is uncomfortable having a non-religious student, he may not be a good fit for you. Knowing that will allow you to decide what to do next. It may be possible to change advisors or it may not, but you won't lose anything by having a polite and honest conversation.
New contributor
Thank you for your answer, as you said, the main thing is to be honest with yourself and with others, but I think It's not to me to open a this discussion, but if they want to discuss someday I will be honest.
– Motaka
7 hours ago
add a comment |
up vote
6
down vote
~Note: I am an American, and while I studied at a largely international college with large populations of all major religions, my answer may not accurately reflect cultural expectations in other countries.~
First of all, I do not think that you should pretend to be religious if you are not. It sounds like it would be quite uncomfortable for you, and could lead to many negative feelings if they found out that you had been lying.
Instead, it sounds like you should have a conversation with your professor. It is not reasonable to ask him or other students to refrain from praying. However, it seems like your biggest concern is that it feels awkward and you do not want them to judge you for being non-religious. The easiest way to deal with this is to tell your professor about your concerns and ask honestly if he is bothered by it.
Tell him that you have noticed that he and the other students go pray together and that you have felt uncomfortable by being the only one who does not because you worry that he could be annoyed or feel disrespected by your lack of participation. He will likely say that it does not bother him that you are not religious, although he may be curious as to why you are not if that is the norm.
At the end of the day, if he is uncomfortable having a non-religious student, he may not be a good fit for you. Knowing that will allow you to decide what to do next. It may be possible to change advisors or it may not, but you won't lose anything by having a polite and honest conversation.
New contributor
Thank you for your answer, as you said, the main thing is to be honest with yourself and with others, but I think It's not to me to open a this discussion, but if they want to discuss someday I will be honest.
– Motaka
7 hours ago
add a comment |
up vote
6
down vote
up vote
6
down vote
~Note: I am an American, and while I studied at a largely international college with large populations of all major religions, my answer may not accurately reflect cultural expectations in other countries.~
First of all, I do not think that you should pretend to be religious if you are not. It sounds like it would be quite uncomfortable for you, and could lead to many negative feelings if they found out that you had been lying.
Instead, it sounds like you should have a conversation with your professor. It is not reasonable to ask him or other students to refrain from praying. However, it seems like your biggest concern is that it feels awkward and you do not want them to judge you for being non-religious. The easiest way to deal with this is to tell your professor about your concerns and ask honestly if he is bothered by it.
Tell him that you have noticed that he and the other students go pray together and that you have felt uncomfortable by being the only one who does not because you worry that he could be annoyed or feel disrespected by your lack of participation. He will likely say that it does not bother him that you are not religious, although he may be curious as to why you are not if that is the norm.
At the end of the day, if he is uncomfortable having a non-religious student, he may not be a good fit for you. Knowing that will allow you to decide what to do next. It may be possible to change advisors or it may not, but you won't lose anything by having a polite and honest conversation.
New contributor
~Note: I am an American, and while I studied at a largely international college with large populations of all major religions, my answer may not accurately reflect cultural expectations in other countries.~
First of all, I do not think that you should pretend to be religious if you are not. It sounds like it would be quite uncomfortable for you, and could lead to many negative feelings if they found out that you had been lying.
Instead, it sounds like you should have a conversation with your professor. It is not reasonable to ask him or other students to refrain from praying. However, it seems like your biggest concern is that it feels awkward and you do not want them to judge you for being non-religious. The easiest way to deal with this is to tell your professor about your concerns and ask honestly if he is bothered by it.
Tell him that you have noticed that he and the other students go pray together and that you have felt uncomfortable by being the only one who does not because you worry that he could be annoyed or feel disrespected by your lack of participation. He will likely say that it does not bother him that you are not religious, although he may be curious as to why you are not if that is the norm.
At the end of the day, if he is uncomfortable having a non-religious student, he may not be a good fit for you. Knowing that will allow you to decide what to do next. It may be possible to change advisors or it may not, but you won't lose anything by having a polite and honest conversation.
New contributor
New contributor
answered 7 hours ago
A Polyphony of Pirates
2735
2735
New contributor
New contributor
Thank you for your answer, as you said, the main thing is to be honest with yourself and with others, but I think It's not to me to open a this discussion, but if they want to discuss someday I will be honest.
– Motaka
7 hours ago
add a comment |
Thank you for your answer, as you said, the main thing is to be honest with yourself and with others, but I think It's not to me to open a this discussion, but if they want to discuss someday I will be honest.
– Motaka
7 hours ago
Thank you for your answer, as you said, the main thing is to be honest with yourself and with others, but I think It's not to me to open a this discussion, but if they want to discuss someday I will be honest.
– Motaka
7 hours ago
Thank you for your answer, as you said, the main thing is to be honest with yourself and with others, but I think It's not to me to open a this discussion, but if they want to discuss someday I will be honest.
– Motaka
7 hours ago
add a comment |
up vote
4
down vote
I am in the U.S., obviously a very different culture.
The way I think things OUGHT to work is this: If these people you work with have different religious beliefs than you and so periodically go off and pray or do whatever related to their religion, they should not pressure you to participate or penalize you in any way for not participating, and likewise you should not pressure them to not do this. They have the right to practice their religion, and you have the right to practice yours or not practice any.
I don't see why this should be any different than any other difference of interests. Suppose I worked with a group of people who, say, all loved to eat Italian food, and I don't like Italian food, and periodically they all go to lunch together at an Italian restaurant. It would be rude for them to pressure me to eat Italian food just because they like it. But it would be even more rude for me to say they shouldn't eat Italian food because I don't like it, or to complain that I am left out because I don't share their taste in food.
I think you should just accept that you don't share this particular interest with your co-workers and that this inevitably means that you will not share certain activities with them. I'd say, so what?
add a comment |
up vote
4
down vote
I am in the U.S., obviously a very different culture.
The way I think things OUGHT to work is this: If these people you work with have different religious beliefs than you and so periodically go off and pray or do whatever related to their religion, they should not pressure you to participate or penalize you in any way for not participating, and likewise you should not pressure them to not do this. They have the right to practice their religion, and you have the right to practice yours or not practice any.
I don't see why this should be any different than any other difference of interests. Suppose I worked with a group of people who, say, all loved to eat Italian food, and I don't like Italian food, and periodically they all go to lunch together at an Italian restaurant. It would be rude for them to pressure me to eat Italian food just because they like it. But it would be even more rude for me to say they shouldn't eat Italian food because I don't like it, or to complain that I am left out because I don't share their taste in food.
I think you should just accept that you don't share this particular interest with your co-workers and that this inevitably means that you will not share certain activities with them. I'd say, so what?
add a comment |
up vote
4
down vote
up vote
4
down vote
I am in the U.S., obviously a very different culture.
The way I think things OUGHT to work is this: If these people you work with have different religious beliefs than you and so periodically go off and pray or do whatever related to their religion, they should not pressure you to participate or penalize you in any way for not participating, and likewise you should not pressure them to not do this. They have the right to practice their religion, and you have the right to practice yours or not practice any.
I don't see why this should be any different than any other difference of interests. Suppose I worked with a group of people who, say, all loved to eat Italian food, and I don't like Italian food, and periodically they all go to lunch together at an Italian restaurant. It would be rude for them to pressure me to eat Italian food just because they like it. But it would be even more rude for me to say they shouldn't eat Italian food because I don't like it, or to complain that I am left out because I don't share their taste in food.
I think you should just accept that you don't share this particular interest with your co-workers and that this inevitably means that you will not share certain activities with them. I'd say, so what?
I am in the U.S., obviously a very different culture.
The way I think things OUGHT to work is this: If these people you work with have different religious beliefs than you and so periodically go off and pray or do whatever related to their religion, they should not pressure you to participate or penalize you in any way for not participating, and likewise you should not pressure them to not do this. They have the right to practice their religion, and you have the right to practice yours or not practice any.
I don't see why this should be any different than any other difference of interests. Suppose I worked with a group of people who, say, all loved to eat Italian food, and I don't like Italian food, and periodically they all go to lunch together at an Italian restaurant. It would be rude for them to pressure me to eat Italian food just because they like it. But it would be even more rude for me to say they shouldn't eat Italian food because I don't like it, or to complain that I am left out because I don't share their taste in food.
I think you should just accept that you don't share this particular interest with your co-workers and that this inevitably means that you will not share certain activities with them. I'd say, so what?
answered 5 hours ago
Jay
88935
88935
add a comment |
add a comment |
up vote
3
down vote
I grew up in a Muslim-majority country. Do's and don'ts:
Do show respect for their religion. That means avoid doing things like comment on how inconvenient it must be to pray five times a day, don't try to get them to eat non-halal things, don't invite them to lunch during Ramadan, etc.
Do do as they do, if possible and not inconvenient. For example if you take lunch together, order/pack something halal. Unless you have special dietary requirements that require you to eat pork, don't eat pork when with them.
Do dress conservatively. If your institution has a dress code, follow that. If you're female, you can usually refuse to wear the hijab if it makes you uncomfortable (depends on country however), but still dress conservatively - e.g. don't wear something sleeveless.
Don't pretend to be Muslim. You can't fake it. Learning how to pray in the religion takes time; the chant they use is nontrivial as well.
Don't pretend to be Muslim #2: just as important, once you identify as Muslim you could be bound to obey a different set of laws. Sharia criminalizes things which are fine in contemporary Western culture, such as homosexuality. If you're homosexual but identify as Muslim, you could bring the religious police on your head.
Don't pretend to be Muslim #3: Further, depending on which country you're in, you could find it really hard to leave the religion. Potential problems you could face go up to death. In the meantime it's not just you that's affected: in many countries, a Muslim person can only marry another Muslim person; plus any child born to a Muslim is automatically a Muslim.
tl; dr: Leave them to practice their religion and don't flaunt the fact that you're not a Muslim. They should do the same to you.
add a comment |
up vote
3
down vote
I grew up in a Muslim-majority country. Do's and don'ts:
Do show respect for their religion. That means avoid doing things like comment on how inconvenient it must be to pray five times a day, don't try to get them to eat non-halal things, don't invite them to lunch during Ramadan, etc.
Do do as they do, if possible and not inconvenient. For example if you take lunch together, order/pack something halal. Unless you have special dietary requirements that require you to eat pork, don't eat pork when with them.
Do dress conservatively. If your institution has a dress code, follow that. If you're female, you can usually refuse to wear the hijab if it makes you uncomfortable (depends on country however), but still dress conservatively - e.g. don't wear something sleeveless.
Don't pretend to be Muslim. You can't fake it. Learning how to pray in the religion takes time; the chant they use is nontrivial as well.
Don't pretend to be Muslim #2: just as important, once you identify as Muslim you could be bound to obey a different set of laws. Sharia criminalizes things which are fine in contemporary Western culture, such as homosexuality. If you're homosexual but identify as Muslim, you could bring the religious police on your head.
Don't pretend to be Muslim #3: Further, depending on which country you're in, you could find it really hard to leave the religion. Potential problems you could face go up to death. In the meantime it's not just you that's affected: in many countries, a Muslim person can only marry another Muslim person; plus any child born to a Muslim is automatically a Muslim.
tl; dr: Leave them to practice their religion and don't flaunt the fact that you're not a Muslim. They should do the same to you.
add a comment |
up vote
3
down vote
up vote
3
down vote
I grew up in a Muslim-majority country. Do's and don'ts:
Do show respect for their religion. That means avoid doing things like comment on how inconvenient it must be to pray five times a day, don't try to get them to eat non-halal things, don't invite them to lunch during Ramadan, etc.
Do do as they do, if possible and not inconvenient. For example if you take lunch together, order/pack something halal. Unless you have special dietary requirements that require you to eat pork, don't eat pork when with them.
Do dress conservatively. If your institution has a dress code, follow that. If you're female, you can usually refuse to wear the hijab if it makes you uncomfortable (depends on country however), but still dress conservatively - e.g. don't wear something sleeveless.
Don't pretend to be Muslim. You can't fake it. Learning how to pray in the religion takes time; the chant they use is nontrivial as well.
Don't pretend to be Muslim #2: just as important, once you identify as Muslim you could be bound to obey a different set of laws. Sharia criminalizes things which are fine in contemporary Western culture, such as homosexuality. If you're homosexual but identify as Muslim, you could bring the religious police on your head.
Don't pretend to be Muslim #3: Further, depending on which country you're in, you could find it really hard to leave the religion. Potential problems you could face go up to death. In the meantime it's not just you that's affected: in many countries, a Muslim person can only marry another Muslim person; plus any child born to a Muslim is automatically a Muslim.
tl; dr: Leave them to practice their religion and don't flaunt the fact that you're not a Muslim. They should do the same to you.
I grew up in a Muslim-majority country. Do's and don'ts:
Do show respect for their religion. That means avoid doing things like comment on how inconvenient it must be to pray five times a day, don't try to get them to eat non-halal things, don't invite them to lunch during Ramadan, etc.
Do do as they do, if possible and not inconvenient. For example if you take lunch together, order/pack something halal. Unless you have special dietary requirements that require you to eat pork, don't eat pork when with them.
Do dress conservatively. If your institution has a dress code, follow that. If you're female, you can usually refuse to wear the hijab if it makes you uncomfortable (depends on country however), but still dress conservatively - e.g. don't wear something sleeveless.
Don't pretend to be Muslim. You can't fake it. Learning how to pray in the religion takes time; the chant they use is nontrivial as well.
Don't pretend to be Muslim #2: just as important, once you identify as Muslim you could be bound to obey a different set of laws. Sharia criminalizes things which are fine in contemporary Western culture, such as homosexuality. If you're homosexual but identify as Muslim, you could bring the religious police on your head.
Don't pretend to be Muslim #3: Further, depending on which country you're in, you could find it really hard to leave the religion. Potential problems you could face go up to death. In the meantime it's not just you that's affected: in many countries, a Muslim person can only marry another Muslim person; plus any child born to a Muslim is automatically a Muslim.
tl; dr: Leave them to practice their religion and don't flaunt the fact that you're not a Muslim. They should do the same to you.
answered 2 hours ago
Allure
24.9k1375124
24.9k1375124
add a comment |
add a comment |
up vote
2
down vote
I also spent a few years in a MENA country in an academic environment. As you say, eating food/drinking water in public during Ramadan was illegal, as were certain standards of dress, however my experience over the years was that this did not in any way mean that the individuals I lived and worked with (including those who were practicing Muslims) were by default unaccepting of my non-religiousness. I am curious why you say
Surely, if they know I'm "non religious" it will annoy them.
and
So even if my supervisor is kind enough as well as his other doctoral student, but they will be disappointed if he know my situation.
Perhaps you have more reason for believing these than you have included in your question, however, in my personal experience, none of my Muslim friends/co-workers ever expected me to conform to their religion. I certainly never pretended to be Muslim, and like other answers, suggest that you do not do this particularly if it does not make you comfortable.
My advice is that perhaps this does not need to a bigger issue than any other lifestyle difference that you might have with your co-workers, and not to read too deeply into it (as in assuming they have some kind of expectation of you), and don't assume government polices affect individual expectations, unless they give you reason for it. By all means, if you feel unhealthy pressure or feel unsafe, don't stay. Otherwise, similar situations where there is a difference in lifestyle/culture between members of the group occur all the time.
Perhaps another group you join might go out regularly for coffee/alcohol when you are unable to join for dietary/religious reasons, or in another group everyone else has kids, so leaves early, or do play-dates on the weekend. But in such situations, the activity you have to miss out on is surely not the only way to build rapport/respect within your group and strengthen your relationship with your supervisor. So if there is no actual pressure for you to have the same religious beliefs, try to decide if you're bothered by their religious belief. If not, then focus your energy on finding some other topic/hobby that you have in common. There's certainly no need to change yourself.
New contributor
add a comment |
up vote
2
down vote
I also spent a few years in a MENA country in an academic environment. As you say, eating food/drinking water in public during Ramadan was illegal, as were certain standards of dress, however my experience over the years was that this did not in any way mean that the individuals I lived and worked with (including those who were practicing Muslims) were by default unaccepting of my non-religiousness. I am curious why you say
Surely, if they know I'm "non religious" it will annoy them.
and
So even if my supervisor is kind enough as well as his other doctoral student, but they will be disappointed if he know my situation.
Perhaps you have more reason for believing these than you have included in your question, however, in my personal experience, none of my Muslim friends/co-workers ever expected me to conform to their religion. I certainly never pretended to be Muslim, and like other answers, suggest that you do not do this particularly if it does not make you comfortable.
My advice is that perhaps this does not need to a bigger issue than any other lifestyle difference that you might have with your co-workers, and not to read too deeply into it (as in assuming they have some kind of expectation of you), and don't assume government polices affect individual expectations, unless they give you reason for it. By all means, if you feel unhealthy pressure or feel unsafe, don't stay. Otherwise, similar situations where there is a difference in lifestyle/culture between members of the group occur all the time.
Perhaps another group you join might go out regularly for coffee/alcohol when you are unable to join for dietary/religious reasons, or in another group everyone else has kids, so leaves early, or do play-dates on the weekend. But in such situations, the activity you have to miss out on is surely not the only way to build rapport/respect within your group and strengthen your relationship with your supervisor. So if there is no actual pressure for you to have the same religious beliefs, try to decide if you're bothered by their religious belief. If not, then focus your energy on finding some other topic/hobby that you have in common. There's certainly no need to change yourself.
New contributor
add a comment |
up vote
2
down vote
up vote
2
down vote
I also spent a few years in a MENA country in an academic environment. As you say, eating food/drinking water in public during Ramadan was illegal, as were certain standards of dress, however my experience over the years was that this did not in any way mean that the individuals I lived and worked with (including those who were practicing Muslims) were by default unaccepting of my non-religiousness. I am curious why you say
Surely, if they know I'm "non religious" it will annoy them.
and
So even if my supervisor is kind enough as well as his other doctoral student, but they will be disappointed if he know my situation.
Perhaps you have more reason for believing these than you have included in your question, however, in my personal experience, none of my Muslim friends/co-workers ever expected me to conform to their religion. I certainly never pretended to be Muslim, and like other answers, suggest that you do not do this particularly if it does not make you comfortable.
My advice is that perhaps this does not need to a bigger issue than any other lifestyle difference that you might have with your co-workers, and not to read too deeply into it (as in assuming they have some kind of expectation of you), and don't assume government polices affect individual expectations, unless they give you reason for it. By all means, if you feel unhealthy pressure or feel unsafe, don't stay. Otherwise, similar situations where there is a difference in lifestyle/culture between members of the group occur all the time.
Perhaps another group you join might go out regularly for coffee/alcohol when you are unable to join for dietary/religious reasons, or in another group everyone else has kids, so leaves early, or do play-dates on the weekend. But in such situations, the activity you have to miss out on is surely not the only way to build rapport/respect within your group and strengthen your relationship with your supervisor. So if there is no actual pressure for you to have the same religious beliefs, try to decide if you're bothered by their religious belief. If not, then focus your energy on finding some other topic/hobby that you have in common. There's certainly no need to change yourself.
New contributor
I also spent a few years in a MENA country in an academic environment. As you say, eating food/drinking water in public during Ramadan was illegal, as were certain standards of dress, however my experience over the years was that this did not in any way mean that the individuals I lived and worked with (including those who were practicing Muslims) were by default unaccepting of my non-religiousness. I am curious why you say
Surely, if they know I'm "non religious" it will annoy them.
and
So even if my supervisor is kind enough as well as his other doctoral student, but they will be disappointed if he know my situation.
Perhaps you have more reason for believing these than you have included in your question, however, in my personal experience, none of my Muslim friends/co-workers ever expected me to conform to their religion. I certainly never pretended to be Muslim, and like other answers, suggest that you do not do this particularly if it does not make you comfortable.
My advice is that perhaps this does not need to a bigger issue than any other lifestyle difference that you might have with your co-workers, and not to read too deeply into it (as in assuming they have some kind of expectation of you), and don't assume government polices affect individual expectations, unless they give you reason for it. By all means, if you feel unhealthy pressure or feel unsafe, don't stay. Otherwise, similar situations where there is a difference in lifestyle/culture between members of the group occur all the time.
Perhaps another group you join might go out regularly for coffee/alcohol when you are unable to join for dietary/religious reasons, or in another group everyone else has kids, so leaves early, or do play-dates on the weekend. But in such situations, the activity you have to miss out on is surely not the only way to build rapport/respect within your group and strengthen your relationship with your supervisor. So if there is no actual pressure for you to have the same religious beliefs, try to decide if you're bothered by their religious belief. If not, then focus your energy on finding some other topic/hobby that you have in common. There's certainly no need to change yourself.
New contributor
New contributor
answered 3 hours ago
The Hagen
211
211
New contributor
New contributor
add a comment |
add a comment |
up vote
0
down vote
how do I react to a situation in which they all go to pray except me?
Do you think I have to open this debate with them, and close it once
and for all? Should I to pretend to be like them, pray with them?
It is up to you. If you feel encouraged to accompany them, then you can tell them to inform you, and tell them that you want to accompany them. Otherwise you should not go even if they invite you, you should tell them not to invite you as you do not prefer to.
Religion is something personal. Even in Muslim countries, no one can force you to pray.
In my opinion you should not open debate about this unless if you are interested about knowing more about what they are doing.
Your supervisor has certain rules and regulations to evaluate you. None of them can be praying. Even in the most religious countries. So you should not worry.
An no, you should not pretend to be like them and pray like them. If you do this, you are wasting your time. Your prayers should have meaning to you, and should make you feel better. If this is not the case with you, no one, including God, need it from you.
add a comment |
up vote
0
down vote
how do I react to a situation in which they all go to pray except me?
Do you think I have to open this debate with them, and close it once
and for all? Should I to pretend to be like them, pray with them?
It is up to you. If you feel encouraged to accompany them, then you can tell them to inform you, and tell them that you want to accompany them. Otherwise you should not go even if they invite you, you should tell them not to invite you as you do not prefer to.
Religion is something personal. Even in Muslim countries, no one can force you to pray.
In my opinion you should not open debate about this unless if you are interested about knowing more about what they are doing.
Your supervisor has certain rules and regulations to evaluate you. None of them can be praying. Even in the most religious countries. So you should not worry.
An no, you should not pretend to be like them and pray like them. If you do this, you are wasting your time. Your prayers should have meaning to you, and should make you feel better. If this is not the case with you, no one, including God, need it from you.
add a comment |
up vote
0
down vote
up vote
0
down vote
how do I react to a situation in which they all go to pray except me?
Do you think I have to open this debate with them, and close it once
and for all? Should I to pretend to be like them, pray with them?
It is up to you. If you feel encouraged to accompany them, then you can tell them to inform you, and tell them that you want to accompany them. Otherwise you should not go even if they invite you, you should tell them not to invite you as you do not prefer to.
Religion is something personal. Even in Muslim countries, no one can force you to pray.
In my opinion you should not open debate about this unless if you are interested about knowing more about what they are doing.
Your supervisor has certain rules and regulations to evaluate you. None of them can be praying. Even in the most religious countries. So you should not worry.
An no, you should not pretend to be like them and pray like them. If you do this, you are wasting your time. Your prayers should have meaning to you, and should make you feel better. If this is not the case with you, no one, including God, need it from you.
how do I react to a situation in which they all go to pray except me?
Do you think I have to open this debate with them, and close it once
and for all? Should I to pretend to be like them, pray with them?
It is up to you. If you feel encouraged to accompany them, then you can tell them to inform you, and tell them that you want to accompany them. Otherwise you should not go even if they invite you, you should tell them not to invite you as you do not prefer to.
Religion is something personal. Even in Muslim countries, no one can force you to pray.
In my opinion you should not open debate about this unless if you are interested about knowing more about what they are doing.
Your supervisor has certain rules and regulations to evaluate you. None of them can be praying. Even in the most religious countries. So you should not worry.
An no, you should not pretend to be like them and pray like them. If you do this, you are wasting your time. Your prayers should have meaning to you, and should make you feel better. If this is not the case with you, no one, including God, need it from you.
answered 5 hours ago
user9371654
2272
2272
add a comment |
add a comment |
Motaka is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
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6
Aren’t they leaving to go pray somewhere else to not make you feel uncomfortable?
– Jon Custer
7 hours ago
3
While I don't know your location, my default answer to this would be "no, you should not do anything that makes you uncomfortable and surely not pretend to be religious in front of your supervisor or anybody else". The nuances on how to deal with this might be easier to suggest if you give us some hint of your location. But, what I'm really interested in is your statement that "Surely if they knew I am not religious it will annoy them" - how do you know that? Have you seen them treat non-religious students unfavourably, is it your funded or unfunded assumption, or something else?
– penelope
7 hours ago
1
Do they ask you to accompany them? I'm trying to figure out why you are uncomfortable with them going to pray at the place to pray. So, it likely isn't that they are leaving to pray, it is that you are the one who does not do so, and you are wondering if that will affect your relationships in the group. Is there any evidence that there is a problem? If so, follow the advice below...
– Jon Custer
7 hours ago
1
Yes, I can imagine some of the problems you have to face (from your descriptions) - but I can't quite put myself in your situation or give advice. Maybe you can edit this additional information in (about location and culture; maybe the example you give places it all in good context) for more pointed answers. My experiences are from international labs with a big cultural variation - so religion has minor to no influence on the supervisor-student relationship (although we have one actively and openly practising faculty and only one such student, not working together)
– penelope
7 hours ago
2
I feel this question requires a much more precise location. Muslim countries vary wildly regarding the tolerance of non religious people. While in some of these countries it would be fine to "come out", in many of these you could be risking your life or your scholarship. So obviously whether or not talking to your supervisor is appropriate depends completely in which case you are. MENA is huge, so it does not really say much about which possibility you are in.
– Bakuriu
4 hours ago