HR advised colleague not to notify department he is leaving











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11
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An engineering colleague of mine has been planning on leaving for the last several months and is leaving in about a months time. Over this period, the engineering department has not been aware of this as HR advised him not to notify engineering.



We are both graduate engineers but he has been there a few months longer than I have. I am aware of this as the colleague told me privately several months ago.



Training for tools we use are expensive, and engineering has not had the funds to send some of us on training, and this colleague was one selected to be funded for training as engineering planned to put him on the next major project.



As this colleague is supposed to be on the next major project (which he will leave before it starts), he annoyingly got me booted of going on a trip as it was deemed 'it would be more valuable to the company if he went'.



Finally, I managed to wrangle myself a decent work area in the company, and now they are saying they are upgrading him in the next couple weeks by swapping our workstations because he will be on a major project.



As you can see, someone who is leaving without notifying engineering has taken a training place (costing several thousand), got me booted from a valuable trip and now is trying to take my work area - and I have been keeping my silence for this guy while simultaneously getting burned for it.



Should I hold my silence, or should I notify our manager?










share|improve this question




















  • 5




    Have you checked whether your colleague still intends to leave?
    – Patricia Shanahan
    6 hours ago






  • 5




    Why in the world they would tell your colleague not to give notice? Are they axing the department?
    – Victor S
    6 hours ago






  • 4




    He was told not to tell anyone, he told you privately, and now you want to squeal on him? Presumably your manager already knows, so it would be silly to tell him.
    – Joe Strazzere
    5 hours ago










  • Thanks for all the feedback. I will stay silent. Yes, I never intended to say anything, as I have for months - just querying due to its negative impact on me.
    – sidA30
    5 hours ago






  • 3




    Has HR known for 7 months? What is the standard notice period at your company?
    – sf02
    4 hours ago















up vote
11
down vote

favorite












An engineering colleague of mine has been planning on leaving for the last several months and is leaving in about a months time. Over this period, the engineering department has not been aware of this as HR advised him not to notify engineering.



We are both graduate engineers but he has been there a few months longer than I have. I am aware of this as the colleague told me privately several months ago.



Training for tools we use are expensive, and engineering has not had the funds to send some of us on training, and this colleague was one selected to be funded for training as engineering planned to put him on the next major project.



As this colleague is supposed to be on the next major project (which he will leave before it starts), he annoyingly got me booted of going on a trip as it was deemed 'it would be more valuable to the company if he went'.



Finally, I managed to wrangle myself a decent work area in the company, and now they are saying they are upgrading him in the next couple weeks by swapping our workstations because he will be on a major project.



As you can see, someone who is leaving without notifying engineering has taken a training place (costing several thousand), got me booted from a valuable trip and now is trying to take my work area - and I have been keeping my silence for this guy while simultaneously getting burned for it.



Should I hold my silence, or should I notify our manager?










share|improve this question




















  • 5




    Have you checked whether your colleague still intends to leave?
    – Patricia Shanahan
    6 hours ago






  • 5




    Why in the world they would tell your colleague not to give notice? Are they axing the department?
    – Victor S
    6 hours ago






  • 4




    He was told not to tell anyone, he told you privately, and now you want to squeal on him? Presumably your manager already knows, so it would be silly to tell him.
    – Joe Strazzere
    5 hours ago










  • Thanks for all the feedback. I will stay silent. Yes, I never intended to say anything, as I have for months - just querying due to its negative impact on me.
    – sidA30
    5 hours ago






  • 3




    Has HR known for 7 months? What is the standard notice period at your company?
    – sf02
    4 hours ago













up vote
11
down vote

favorite









up vote
11
down vote

favorite











An engineering colleague of mine has been planning on leaving for the last several months and is leaving in about a months time. Over this period, the engineering department has not been aware of this as HR advised him not to notify engineering.



We are both graduate engineers but he has been there a few months longer than I have. I am aware of this as the colleague told me privately several months ago.



Training for tools we use are expensive, and engineering has not had the funds to send some of us on training, and this colleague was one selected to be funded for training as engineering planned to put him on the next major project.



As this colleague is supposed to be on the next major project (which he will leave before it starts), he annoyingly got me booted of going on a trip as it was deemed 'it would be more valuable to the company if he went'.



Finally, I managed to wrangle myself a decent work area in the company, and now they are saying they are upgrading him in the next couple weeks by swapping our workstations because he will be on a major project.



As you can see, someone who is leaving without notifying engineering has taken a training place (costing several thousand), got me booted from a valuable trip and now is trying to take my work area - and I have been keeping my silence for this guy while simultaneously getting burned for it.



Should I hold my silence, or should I notify our manager?










share|improve this question















An engineering colleague of mine has been planning on leaving for the last several months and is leaving in about a months time. Over this period, the engineering department has not been aware of this as HR advised him not to notify engineering.



We are both graduate engineers but he has been there a few months longer than I have. I am aware of this as the colleague told me privately several months ago.



Training for tools we use are expensive, and engineering has not had the funds to send some of us on training, and this colleague was one selected to be funded for training as engineering planned to put him on the next major project.



As this colleague is supposed to be on the next major project (which he will leave before it starts), he annoyingly got me booted of going on a trip as it was deemed 'it would be more valuable to the company if he went'.



Finally, I managed to wrangle myself a decent work area in the company, and now they are saying they are upgrading him in the next couple weeks by swapping our workstations because he will be on a major project.



As you can see, someone who is leaving without notifying engineering has taken a training place (costing several thousand), got me booted from a valuable trip and now is trying to take my work area - and I have been keeping my silence for this guy while simultaneously getting burned for it.



Should I hold my silence, or should I notify our manager?







colleagues leaving






share|improve this question















share|improve this question













share|improve this question




share|improve this question








edited 6 hours ago









DarkCygnus

32.9k1463143




32.9k1463143










asked 6 hours ago









sidA30

1726




1726








  • 5




    Have you checked whether your colleague still intends to leave?
    – Patricia Shanahan
    6 hours ago






  • 5




    Why in the world they would tell your colleague not to give notice? Are they axing the department?
    – Victor S
    6 hours ago






  • 4




    He was told not to tell anyone, he told you privately, and now you want to squeal on him? Presumably your manager already knows, so it would be silly to tell him.
    – Joe Strazzere
    5 hours ago










  • Thanks for all the feedback. I will stay silent. Yes, I never intended to say anything, as I have for months - just querying due to its negative impact on me.
    – sidA30
    5 hours ago






  • 3




    Has HR known for 7 months? What is the standard notice period at your company?
    – sf02
    4 hours ago














  • 5




    Have you checked whether your colleague still intends to leave?
    – Patricia Shanahan
    6 hours ago






  • 5




    Why in the world they would tell your colleague not to give notice? Are they axing the department?
    – Victor S
    6 hours ago






  • 4




    He was told not to tell anyone, he told you privately, and now you want to squeal on him? Presumably your manager already knows, so it would be silly to tell him.
    – Joe Strazzere
    5 hours ago










  • Thanks for all the feedback. I will stay silent. Yes, I never intended to say anything, as I have for months - just querying due to its negative impact on me.
    – sidA30
    5 hours ago






  • 3




    Has HR known for 7 months? What is the standard notice period at your company?
    – sf02
    4 hours ago








5




5




Have you checked whether your colleague still intends to leave?
– Patricia Shanahan
6 hours ago




Have you checked whether your colleague still intends to leave?
– Patricia Shanahan
6 hours ago




5




5




Why in the world they would tell your colleague not to give notice? Are they axing the department?
– Victor S
6 hours ago




Why in the world they would tell your colleague not to give notice? Are they axing the department?
– Victor S
6 hours ago




4




4




He was told not to tell anyone, he told you privately, and now you want to squeal on him? Presumably your manager already knows, so it would be silly to tell him.
– Joe Strazzere
5 hours ago




He was told not to tell anyone, he told you privately, and now you want to squeal on him? Presumably your manager already knows, so it would be silly to tell him.
– Joe Strazzere
5 hours ago












Thanks for all the feedback. I will stay silent. Yes, I never intended to say anything, as I have for months - just querying due to its negative impact on me.
– sidA30
5 hours ago




Thanks for all the feedback. I will stay silent. Yes, I never intended to say anything, as I have for months - just querying due to its negative impact on me.
– sidA30
5 hours ago




3




3




Has HR known for 7 months? What is the standard notice period at your company?
– sf02
4 hours ago




Has HR known for 7 months? What is the standard notice period at your company?
– sf02
4 hours ago










5 Answers
5






active

oldest

votes

















up vote
21
down vote













Have you considered that he is getting all these goodies as a way to try to convince him to stay? From people who know very well he intends to leave? Sharing information you were told in confidence is never going to look good on you.



If your own HR department knows of his plans and has not told any of the people who make decisions, then your company is very unusual. Chances are, the decision makers have been quietly told, but the rest of engineering has not. This allows for a handover process that is controlled by the decision makers, and not by individuals thinking "I'm not going to any trouble for that coworker, who is leaving, it's not worth it."



If you tell a manager or other decision maker who already knows, you'll look like someone who can't keep a confidence and wants to meddle or challenge decisions. If you tell someone who doesn't know, you may find some of their anger over it lands on you. Either way, it is unlikely to help you.



In a very small company, quietly going to someone who needs to know something and telling them may be helpful (though not always in a way you expect.) But in a place large enough to have HR, it probably won't. I would advise you to stay in your lane and work well, so that when they are wondering who can take the place of this departing engineer - who should be on the big project, who should get the good work area, who should get the training - you naturally come to mind. You have information others don't: you can get value from a spurt of hard work until this person leaves.






share|improve this answer

















  • 4




    Good answer. It would be exceedingly unlikely that HR would know, and not bother to tell the manager. Squealing to the manager would be unwise.
    – Joe Strazzere
    5 hours ago


















up vote
13
down vote














Should I hold my silence, or should I notify our manager?




Well, with all due respect, I think you should mind your own business. This thing is something between this colleague and HR... it would be wise to stay out of matters that do not involve you.



If HR suggested this to your colleague then there should be a reason why, but again, is not something you should be interfering with.



By revealing such thing you would not only be meddling with other's affairs (and perhaps affect your colleague negatively), but could also backfire on you.






share|improve this answer




























    up vote
    5
    down vote













    Until your coworker gives his official notice, then he is not officially leaving. Lots of things can change over the course of months. Your coworker could stay on for years, especially if he is now getting a big project. Trying to rat him out, could easily backfire, and all he has to do is deny having any plans to leave.






    share|improve this answer




























      up vote
      2
      down vote













      I think it's important to keep the promise to your colleague to not reveal something they told you in confidence. But given that your relationship is strong enough to where your colleague is willing to confide you, I recommend talking to him directly about what's going. Going to the manager about this will paint you as a rat to your whole company and hurt your working relationship with your colleague. No good can come of this.



      I similarly had a colleague confide in me that he had plans of leaving and was waiting for a final job offer to come through (He already gave a verbal commitment). When my colleague committed to projects I knew he wouldn't be around for, I didn't say anything publicly, but I chatted with him one-on-one about it. My colleague told me until the final job offer comes through, he needed to make sure management didn't get the idea he was going to leave. Hence, he committed to projects in the future. I agreed with him that's absolutely the right call.






      share|improve this answer




























        up vote
        -6
        down vote













        IMHO, in case you notify your manager, it may seem as jealousy.



        That being said, i don`t see any issue you dropping that in unofficial conversation, in case you communicate off work.



        Being a bit intoxicated can give you reasonable doubt of your intentions ;)






        share|improve this answer





















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          5 Answers
          5






          active

          oldest

          votes








          5 Answers
          5






          active

          oldest

          votes









          active

          oldest

          votes






          active

          oldest

          votes








          up vote
          21
          down vote













          Have you considered that he is getting all these goodies as a way to try to convince him to stay? From people who know very well he intends to leave? Sharing information you were told in confidence is never going to look good on you.



          If your own HR department knows of his plans and has not told any of the people who make decisions, then your company is very unusual. Chances are, the decision makers have been quietly told, but the rest of engineering has not. This allows for a handover process that is controlled by the decision makers, and not by individuals thinking "I'm not going to any trouble for that coworker, who is leaving, it's not worth it."



          If you tell a manager or other decision maker who already knows, you'll look like someone who can't keep a confidence and wants to meddle or challenge decisions. If you tell someone who doesn't know, you may find some of their anger over it lands on you. Either way, it is unlikely to help you.



          In a very small company, quietly going to someone who needs to know something and telling them may be helpful (though not always in a way you expect.) But in a place large enough to have HR, it probably won't. I would advise you to stay in your lane and work well, so that when they are wondering who can take the place of this departing engineer - who should be on the big project, who should get the good work area, who should get the training - you naturally come to mind. You have information others don't: you can get value from a spurt of hard work until this person leaves.






          share|improve this answer

















          • 4




            Good answer. It would be exceedingly unlikely that HR would know, and not bother to tell the manager. Squealing to the manager would be unwise.
            – Joe Strazzere
            5 hours ago















          up vote
          21
          down vote













          Have you considered that he is getting all these goodies as a way to try to convince him to stay? From people who know very well he intends to leave? Sharing information you were told in confidence is never going to look good on you.



          If your own HR department knows of his plans and has not told any of the people who make decisions, then your company is very unusual. Chances are, the decision makers have been quietly told, but the rest of engineering has not. This allows for a handover process that is controlled by the decision makers, and not by individuals thinking "I'm not going to any trouble for that coworker, who is leaving, it's not worth it."



          If you tell a manager or other decision maker who already knows, you'll look like someone who can't keep a confidence and wants to meddle or challenge decisions. If you tell someone who doesn't know, you may find some of their anger over it lands on you. Either way, it is unlikely to help you.



          In a very small company, quietly going to someone who needs to know something and telling them may be helpful (though not always in a way you expect.) But in a place large enough to have HR, it probably won't. I would advise you to stay in your lane and work well, so that when they are wondering who can take the place of this departing engineer - who should be on the big project, who should get the good work area, who should get the training - you naturally come to mind. You have information others don't: you can get value from a spurt of hard work until this person leaves.






          share|improve this answer

















          • 4




            Good answer. It would be exceedingly unlikely that HR would know, and not bother to tell the manager. Squealing to the manager would be unwise.
            – Joe Strazzere
            5 hours ago













          up vote
          21
          down vote










          up vote
          21
          down vote









          Have you considered that he is getting all these goodies as a way to try to convince him to stay? From people who know very well he intends to leave? Sharing information you were told in confidence is never going to look good on you.



          If your own HR department knows of his plans and has not told any of the people who make decisions, then your company is very unusual. Chances are, the decision makers have been quietly told, but the rest of engineering has not. This allows for a handover process that is controlled by the decision makers, and not by individuals thinking "I'm not going to any trouble for that coworker, who is leaving, it's not worth it."



          If you tell a manager or other decision maker who already knows, you'll look like someone who can't keep a confidence and wants to meddle or challenge decisions. If you tell someone who doesn't know, you may find some of their anger over it lands on you. Either way, it is unlikely to help you.



          In a very small company, quietly going to someone who needs to know something and telling them may be helpful (though not always in a way you expect.) But in a place large enough to have HR, it probably won't. I would advise you to stay in your lane and work well, so that when they are wondering who can take the place of this departing engineer - who should be on the big project, who should get the good work area, who should get the training - you naturally come to mind. You have information others don't: you can get value from a spurt of hard work until this person leaves.






          share|improve this answer












          Have you considered that he is getting all these goodies as a way to try to convince him to stay? From people who know very well he intends to leave? Sharing information you were told in confidence is never going to look good on you.



          If your own HR department knows of his plans and has not told any of the people who make decisions, then your company is very unusual. Chances are, the decision makers have been quietly told, but the rest of engineering has not. This allows for a handover process that is controlled by the decision makers, and not by individuals thinking "I'm not going to any trouble for that coworker, who is leaving, it's not worth it."



          If you tell a manager or other decision maker who already knows, you'll look like someone who can't keep a confidence and wants to meddle or challenge decisions. If you tell someone who doesn't know, you may find some of their anger over it lands on you. Either way, it is unlikely to help you.



          In a very small company, quietly going to someone who needs to know something and telling them may be helpful (though not always in a way you expect.) But in a place large enough to have HR, it probably won't. I would advise you to stay in your lane and work well, so that when they are wondering who can take the place of this departing engineer - who should be on the big project, who should get the good work area, who should get the training - you naturally come to mind. You have information others don't: you can get value from a spurt of hard work until this person leaves.







          share|improve this answer












          share|improve this answer



          share|improve this answer










          answered 5 hours ago









          Kate Gregory

          107k40234338




          107k40234338








          • 4




            Good answer. It would be exceedingly unlikely that HR would know, and not bother to tell the manager. Squealing to the manager would be unwise.
            – Joe Strazzere
            5 hours ago














          • 4




            Good answer. It would be exceedingly unlikely that HR would know, and not bother to tell the manager. Squealing to the manager would be unwise.
            – Joe Strazzere
            5 hours ago








          4




          4




          Good answer. It would be exceedingly unlikely that HR would know, and not bother to tell the manager. Squealing to the manager would be unwise.
          – Joe Strazzere
          5 hours ago




          Good answer. It would be exceedingly unlikely that HR would know, and not bother to tell the manager. Squealing to the manager would be unwise.
          – Joe Strazzere
          5 hours ago












          up vote
          13
          down vote














          Should I hold my silence, or should I notify our manager?




          Well, with all due respect, I think you should mind your own business. This thing is something between this colleague and HR... it would be wise to stay out of matters that do not involve you.



          If HR suggested this to your colleague then there should be a reason why, but again, is not something you should be interfering with.



          By revealing such thing you would not only be meddling with other's affairs (and perhaps affect your colleague negatively), but could also backfire on you.






          share|improve this answer

























            up vote
            13
            down vote














            Should I hold my silence, or should I notify our manager?




            Well, with all due respect, I think you should mind your own business. This thing is something between this colleague and HR... it would be wise to stay out of matters that do not involve you.



            If HR suggested this to your colleague then there should be a reason why, but again, is not something you should be interfering with.



            By revealing such thing you would not only be meddling with other's affairs (and perhaps affect your colleague negatively), but could also backfire on you.






            share|improve this answer























              up vote
              13
              down vote










              up vote
              13
              down vote










              Should I hold my silence, or should I notify our manager?




              Well, with all due respect, I think you should mind your own business. This thing is something between this colleague and HR... it would be wise to stay out of matters that do not involve you.



              If HR suggested this to your colleague then there should be a reason why, but again, is not something you should be interfering with.



              By revealing such thing you would not only be meddling with other's affairs (and perhaps affect your colleague negatively), but could also backfire on you.






              share|improve this answer













              Should I hold my silence, or should I notify our manager?




              Well, with all due respect, I think you should mind your own business. This thing is something between this colleague and HR... it would be wise to stay out of matters that do not involve you.



              If HR suggested this to your colleague then there should be a reason why, but again, is not something you should be interfering with.



              By revealing such thing you would not only be meddling with other's affairs (and perhaps affect your colleague negatively), but could also backfire on you.







              share|improve this answer












              share|improve this answer



              share|improve this answer










              answered 6 hours ago









              DarkCygnus

              32.9k1463143




              32.9k1463143






















                  up vote
                  5
                  down vote













                  Until your coworker gives his official notice, then he is not officially leaving. Lots of things can change over the course of months. Your coworker could stay on for years, especially if he is now getting a big project. Trying to rat him out, could easily backfire, and all he has to do is deny having any plans to leave.






                  share|improve this answer

























                    up vote
                    5
                    down vote













                    Until your coworker gives his official notice, then he is not officially leaving. Lots of things can change over the course of months. Your coworker could stay on for years, especially if he is now getting a big project. Trying to rat him out, could easily backfire, and all he has to do is deny having any plans to leave.






                    share|improve this answer























                      up vote
                      5
                      down vote










                      up vote
                      5
                      down vote









                      Until your coworker gives his official notice, then he is not officially leaving. Lots of things can change over the course of months. Your coworker could stay on for years, especially if he is now getting a big project. Trying to rat him out, could easily backfire, and all he has to do is deny having any plans to leave.






                      share|improve this answer












                      Until your coworker gives his official notice, then he is not officially leaving. Lots of things can change over the course of months. Your coworker could stay on for years, especially if he is now getting a big project. Trying to rat him out, could easily backfire, and all he has to do is deny having any plans to leave.







                      share|improve this answer












                      share|improve this answer



                      share|improve this answer










                      answered 6 hours ago









                      IDrinkandIKnowThings

                      44.1k1598189




                      44.1k1598189






















                          up vote
                          2
                          down vote













                          I think it's important to keep the promise to your colleague to not reveal something they told you in confidence. But given that your relationship is strong enough to where your colleague is willing to confide you, I recommend talking to him directly about what's going. Going to the manager about this will paint you as a rat to your whole company and hurt your working relationship with your colleague. No good can come of this.



                          I similarly had a colleague confide in me that he had plans of leaving and was waiting for a final job offer to come through (He already gave a verbal commitment). When my colleague committed to projects I knew he wouldn't be around for, I didn't say anything publicly, but I chatted with him one-on-one about it. My colleague told me until the final job offer comes through, he needed to make sure management didn't get the idea he was going to leave. Hence, he committed to projects in the future. I agreed with him that's absolutely the right call.






                          share|improve this answer

























                            up vote
                            2
                            down vote













                            I think it's important to keep the promise to your colleague to not reveal something they told you in confidence. But given that your relationship is strong enough to where your colleague is willing to confide you, I recommend talking to him directly about what's going. Going to the manager about this will paint you as a rat to your whole company and hurt your working relationship with your colleague. No good can come of this.



                            I similarly had a colleague confide in me that he had plans of leaving and was waiting for a final job offer to come through (He already gave a verbal commitment). When my colleague committed to projects I knew he wouldn't be around for, I didn't say anything publicly, but I chatted with him one-on-one about it. My colleague told me until the final job offer comes through, he needed to make sure management didn't get the idea he was going to leave. Hence, he committed to projects in the future. I agreed with him that's absolutely the right call.






                            share|improve this answer























                              up vote
                              2
                              down vote










                              up vote
                              2
                              down vote









                              I think it's important to keep the promise to your colleague to not reveal something they told you in confidence. But given that your relationship is strong enough to where your colleague is willing to confide you, I recommend talking to him directly about what's going. Going to the manager about this will paint you as a rat to your whole company and hurt your working relationship with your colleague. No good can come of this.



                              I similarly had a colleague confide in me that he had plans of leaving and was waiting for a final job offer to come through (He already gave a verbal commitment). When my colleague committed to projects I knew he wouldn't be around for, I didn't say anything publicly, but I chatted with him one-on-one about it. My colleague told me until the final job offer comes through, he needed to make sure management didn't get the idea he was going to leave. Hence, he committed to projects in the future. I agreed with him that's absolutely the right call.






                              share|improve this answer












                              I think it's important to keep the promise to your colleague to not reveal something they told you in confidence. But given that your relationship is strong enough to where your colleague is willing to confide you, I recommend talking to him directly about what's going. Going to the manager about this will paint you as a rat to your whole company and hurt your working relationship with your colleague. No good can come of this.



                              I similarly had a colleague confide in me that he had plans of leaving and was waiting for a final job offer to come through (He already gave a verbal commitment). When my colleague committed to projects I knew he wouldn't be around for, I didn't say anything publicly, but I chatted with him one-on-one about it. My colleague told me until the final job offer comes through, he needed to make sure management didn't get the idea he was going to leave. Hence, he committed to projects in the future. I agreed with him that's absolutely the right call.







                              share|improve this answer












                              share|improve this answer



                              share|improve this answer










                              answered 5 hours ago









                              jcmack

                              7,26011639




                              7,26011639






















                                  up vote
                                  -6
                                  down vote













                                  IMHO, in case you notify your manager, it may seem as jealousy.



                                  That being said, i don`t see any issue you dropping that in unofficial conversation, in case you communicate off work.



                                  Being a bit intoxicated can give you reasonable doubt of your intentions ;)






                                  share|improve this answer

























                                    up vote
                                    -6
                                    down vote













                                    IMHO, in case you notify your manager, it may seem as jealousy.



                                    That being said, i don`t see any issue you dropping that in unofficial conversation, in case you communicate off work.



                                    Being a bit intoxicated can give you reasonable doubt of your intentions ;)






                                    share|improve this answer























                                      up vote
                                      -6
                                      down vote










                                      up vote
                                      -6
                                      down vote









                                      IMHO, in case you notify your manager, it may seem as jealousy.



                                      That being said, i don`t see any issue you dropping that in unofficial conversation, in case you communicate off work.



                                      Being a bit intoxicated can give you reasonable doubt of your intentions ;)






                                      share|improve this answer












                                      IMHO, in case you notify your manager, it may seem as jealousy.



                                      That being said, i don`t see any issue you dropping that in unofficial conversation, in case you communicate off work.



                                      Being a bit intoxicated can give you reasonable doubt of your intentions ;)







                                      share|improve this answer












                                      share|improve this answer



                                      share|improve this answer










                                      answered 6 hours ago









                                      Strader

                                      3,056525




                                      3,056525






























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