What kind of structure with a relative pronoun is this?
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2
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As Lord Esher once noted, ‘Any proposition the result of which would be to show that the common law of England is wholly unreasonable and unjust cannot be part of the common law of
England.’
Would someone please help unravel the bolded relative clause, step-by-step? Please explain your steps. I've never seen this construct before.
Does the bolded clause = 'whose result'?
Moreover, is it equivalent to 'the result of any proposition which would be to show ...' ?
Source: P101, How the Law Works, Gary Slapper
legalese relative-pronouns subordinate-clauses whose pied-piping
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up vote
2
down vote
favorite
As Lord Esher once noted, ‘Any proposition the result of which would be to show that the common law of England is wholly unreasonable and unjust cannot be part of the common law of
England.’
Would someone please help unravel the bolded relative clause, step-by-step? Please explain your steps. I've never seen this construct before.
Does the bolded clause = 'whose result'?
Moreover, is it equivalent to 'the result of any proposition which would be to show ...' ?
Source: P101, How the Law Works, Gary Slapper
legalese relative-pronouns subordinate-clauses whose pied-piping
add a comment |
up vote
2
down vote
favorite
up vote
2
down vote
favorite
As Lord Esher once noted, ‘Any proposition the result of which would be to show that the common law of England is wholly unreasonable and unjust cannot be part of the common law of
England.’
Would someone please help unravel the bolded relative clause, step-by-step? Please explain your steps. I've never seen this construct before.
Does the bolded clause = 'whose result'?
Moreover, is it equivalent to 'the result of any proposition which would be to show ...' ?
Source: P101, How the Law Works, Gary Slapper
legalese relative-pronouns subordinate-clauses whose pied-piping
As Lord Esher once noted, ‘Any proposition the result of which would be to show that the common law of England is wholly unreasonable and unjust cannot be part of the common law of
England.’
Would someone please help unravel the bolded relative clause, step-by-step? Please explain your steps. I've never seen this construct before.
Does the bolded clause = 'whose result'?
Moreover, is it equivalent to 'the result of any proposition which would be to show ...' ?
Source: P101, How the Law Works, Gary Slapper
legalese relative-pronouns subordinate-clauses whose pied-piping
legalese relative-pronouns subordinate-clauses whose pied-piping
edited Jul 7 '14 at 17:51
tchrist♦
108k28290463
108k28290463
asked Jul 7 '14 at 15:47
Greek - Area 51 Proposal
4,04084088
4,04084088
add a comment |
add a comment |
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
up vote
12
down vote
accepted
The technical term for this construction is Pied-Piping.
(I don't make up these names, honest; this one, like many others, is due to Haj Ross)
Here's how it works:
Relative clauses modify nouns; these nouns are called antecedents (because they "go before").
Every relative clause contains an anaphor of its antecedent, which becomes a relative pronoun,
and, under certain circumstances, may simply be deleted.
- [
the man
[the man
came to dinner]] --> [the man
[who/that
came to dinner]] - [
the man
[I sawthe man
]] --> [the man
[who/that
I saw]] --> [the man
[I saw]]
In the first example above, the relative pronoun is the subject and may not be deleted.
In the second example, the relative pronoun is the direct object and may be deleted.
That accounts for the majority of relative clauses.
However, subject and object do not exhaust the roles or positions of nouns.
Other roles are called Oblique, as a class, and include objects of prepositions, of all sorts.
In the following examples, I'll leave out the who/that
version, which is always possible,
- [
the man
[I looked atthe man
]] --> [the man
[who/that
I looked at]]
because oblique relative pronouns are always deletable.
(Note that these all end up stranding a preposition at the end, just like the one above does):
- [
the man
[I looked atthe man
]] --> [the man
[I looked at]] - [
the man
[I talked tothe man
]] --> [the man
[I talked to]] - [
the man
[I came withthe man
]] --> [the man
[I came with]] - [
the room
[I live inthe room
]] --> [the room
[I live in]]
In effect, moving or deleting the relative pronoun breaks up the prepositional phrase.
However, prepositional phrases are constituents, and may optionally be moved as one unit:
- [
the man
[I looked [at the man
]]] --> [the man
[[at whom
] I looked]] - [
the room
[I live [in the room
]]] --> [the room
[[in which
] I live]]
This process, of moving the whole prepositional phrase instead of only its object,
is what Pied-Piping means. The preposition gets piped away to the front, marking its object.
Moreover, prepositional phrases can modify nouns that are objects of other prepositional phrases,
and they, too, are constituents, and can be moved as a unit. So are, and so can, the noun phrases. Again, only optionally. Which leads to such mind-numbing spectra of nonrestrictive relatives as:
- The government prescribes the height of the lettering on the covers of the reports.
- the reports, which the government prescribes the height of the lettering on the covers of
- the reports, of which the government prescribes the height of the lettering on the covers
- the reports, the covers of which the government prescribes the height of the lettering on
- the reports, on the covers of which the government prescribes the height of the lettering
- the reports, the lettering on the covers of which the government prescribes the height of
- the reports, of the lettering on the covers of which the government prescribes the height
- the reports, the height of the lettering on the covers of which the government prescribes
This kind of syntax seems especially common in pedantic, bureaucratic, or legal contexts.
Opinions vary as to the grammaticality of various portions of the spectrum; pied-piping seems
to be a syntactic habit one picks up, if at all, later in one's education, and individually. I.e, YMMV.
1
Nice! Love your exhaustive reply.
– Cyberherbalist
Jul 7 '14 at 22:14
1
Exhaustive? I didn't begin to cover the topic.
– John Lawler
Jul 7 '14 at 23:10
1
Well, it exhausted me, reading it! LOL
– Cyberherbalist
Jul 8 '14 at 18:37
1
+1. Thank you effusively for your care, detail, and every step. Are there any names or terms for this kind of analysis or decomposition?
– Greek - Area 51 Proposal
Jul 21 '14 at 13:41
1
It's called Generative Grammar. If you want to know how to do it, it's all in Jim McCawley's The Syntactic Phenomena of English (U Chicago Press 1998). Pied Piping was either discovered or invented (depending on what church you go to) by Haj Ross in his 1967 MIT dissertation, Constraints on Variables in Syntax.
– John Lawler
Jul 21 '14 at 14:21
|
show 3 more comments
up vote
3
down vote
Did anyone answer the last question: "Moreover, is it equivalent to 'the result of any proposition which would be to show ...' ?" Assuming "it" refers to the quote:
‘Any proposition the result of which would be to show that the common law of England is wholly unreasonable and unjust cannot be part of the common law of England.’
then, no, I don't see a way of filling in the dots to make "the result ..." equivalent. Instead, the original quote is equivalent to:
If any proposition has the result that the common law of England is wholly unreasonable and unjust, then that proposition cannot be part of the common law of England.
Part of the derivation of the original is to convert the antecedent of the if-then construction to a relative clause, which is then attached to the subject of the consequent of the if-then clause.
It's all a fancified way of saying that, in law, the common law is assumed to be consistent with itself.
add a comment |
up vote
1
down vote
As to your question:
"Does the bolded clause = 'whose result'? "
The answer is Yes.
"... is it equivalent to 'the result of any proposition which would be to show ...' ?"
Again, yes.
I don't quite know how you would unravel the original clause "step by step". It seems to be a matter of a single-step.
Edited to Add:
"..please explain how you determined the meaning of the original clause?" This is a difficult thing to do. I did not have to "determine" the meaning -- I understood it innately. I think if you need a detailed explanation, @JohnLawler's response is probably what you want.
According to some authorities, who, and hence whose, can only be used of people, not objects like propositions. So not strictly equal, but probably close enough for OPs purpose.
– TimLymington
Jul 7 '14 at 16:14
Thanks for your response. Would you please explain how you determined the meaning of the original clause? I guessed. Will you please to respond in your answer, and not as comments?
– Greek - Area 51 Proposal
Jul 7 '14 at 16:16
1
Yes: though some, presumably including Lord Esher, regard whose as inappropriate in cases like this where the relative pronoun's antecedent is not one or more persons, still it has the unique advantage of being both a relative pronoun and in the possessive or genitive case. And if whose is rejected as inappropriate, the admittedly rather awkward periphrasis shown in bold is a fallback choice. Better yet, perhaps, "No proposition that implies that the common law of England is wholly unreasonable and unjust can itself be part of the common law of England."
– Brian Donovan
Jul 7 '14 at 16:16
@BrianDonovan: Would you like to recast as a separate answer for which I can upvote?
– Greek - Area 51 Proposal
Jul 21 '14 at 13:40
add a comment |
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
12
down vote
accepted
The technical term for this construction is Pied-Piping.
(I don't make up these names, honest; this one, like many others, is due to Haj Ross)
Here's how it works:
Relative clauses modify nouns; these nouns are called antecedents (because they "go before").
Every relative clause contains an anaphor of its antecedent, which becomes a relative pronoun,
and, under certain circumstances, may simply be deleted.
- [
the man
[the man
came to dinner]] --> [the man
[who/that
came to dinner]] - [
the man
[I sawthe man
]] --> [the man
[who/that
I saw]] --> [the man
[I saw]]
In the first example above, the relative pronoun is the subject and may not be deleted.
In the second example, the relative pronoun is the direct object and may be deleted.
That accounts for the majority of relative clauses.
However, subject and object do not exhaust the roles or positions of nouns.
Other roles are called Oblique, as a class, and include objects of prepositions, of all sorts.
In the following examples, I'll leave out the who/that
version, which is always possible,
- [
the man
[I looked atthe man
]] --> [the man
[who/that
I looked at]]
because oblique relative pronouns are always deletable.
(Note that these all end up stranding a preposition at the end, just like the one above does):
- [
the man
[I looked atthe man
]] --> [the man
[I looked at]] - [
the man
[I talked tothe man
]] --> [the man
[I talked to]] - [
the man
[I came withthe man
]] --> [the man
[I came with]] - [
the room
[I live inthe room
]] --> [the room
[I live in]]
In effect, moving or deleting the relative pronoun breaks up the prepositional phrase.
However, prepositional phrases are constituents, and may optionally be moved as one unit:
- [
the man
[I looked [at the man
]]] --> [the man
[[at whom
] I looked]] - [
the room
[I live [in the room
]]] --> [the room
[[in which
] I live]]
This process, of moving the whole prepositional phrase instead of only its object,
is what Pied-Piping means. The preposition gets piped away to the front, marking its object.
Moreover, prepositional phrases can modify nouns that are objects of other prepositional phrases,
and they, too, are constituents, and can be moved as a unit. So are, and so can, the noun phrases. Again, only optionally. Which leads to such mind-numbing spectra of nonrestrictive relatives as:
- The government prescribes the height of the lettering on the covers of the reports.
- the reports, which the government prescribes the height of the lettering on the covers of
- the reports, of which the government prescribes the height of the lettering on the covers
- the reports, the covers of which the government prescribes the height of the lettering on
- the reports, on the covers of which the government prescribes the height of the lettering
- the reports, the lettering on the covers of which the government prescribes the height of
- the reports, of the lettering on the covers of which the government prescribes the height
- the reports, the height of the lettering on the covers of which the government prescribes
This kind of syntax seems especially common in pedantic, bureaucratic, or legal contexts.
Opinions vary as to the grammaticality of various portions of the spectrum; pied-piping seems
to be a syntactic habit one picks up, if at all, later in one's education, and individually. I.e, YMMV.
1
Nice! Love your exhaustive reply.
– Cyberherbalist
Jul 7 '14 at 22:14
1
Exhaustive? I didn't begin to cover the topic.
– John Lawler
Jul 7 '14 at 23:10
1
Well, it exhausted me, reading it! LOL
– Cyberherbalist
Jul 8 '14 at 18:37
1
+1. Thank you effusively for your care, detail, and every step. Are there any names or terms for this kind of analysis or decomposition?
– Greek - Area 51 Proposal
Jul 21 '14 at 13:41
1
It's called Generative Grammar. If you want to know how to do it, it's all in Jim McCawley's The Syntactic Phenomena of English (U Chicago Press 1998). Pied Piping was either discovered or invented (depending on what church you go to) by Haj Ross in his 1967 MIT dissertation, Constraints on Variables in Syntax.
– John Lawler
Jul 21 '14 at 14:21
|
show 3 more comments
up vote
12
down vote
accepted
The technical term for this construction is Pied-Piping.
(I don't make up these names, honest; this one, like many others, is due to Haj Ross)
Here's how it works:
Relative clauses modify nouns; these nouns are called antecedents (because they "go before").
Every relative clause contains an anaphor of its antecedent, which becomes a relative pronoun,
and, under certain circumstances, may simply be deleted.
- [
the man
[the man
came to dinner]] --> [the man
[who/that
came to dinner]] - [
the man
[I sawthe man
]] --> [the man
[who/that
I saw]] --> [the man
[I saw]]
In the first example above, the relative pronoun is the subject and may not be deleted.
In the second example, the relative pronoun is the direct object and may be deleted.
That accounts for the majority of relative clauses.
However, subject and object do not exhaust the roles or positions of nouns.
Other roles are called Oblique, as a class, and include objects of prepositions, of all sorts.
In the following examples, I'll leave out the who/that
version, which is always possible,
- [
the man
[I looked atthe man
]] --> [the man
[who/that
I looked at]]
because oblique relative pronouns are always deletable.
(Note that these all end up stranding a preposition at the end, just like the one above does):
- [
the man
[I looked atthe man
]] --> [the man
[I looked at]] - [
the man
[I talked tothe man
]] --> [the man
[I talked to]] - [
the man
[I came withthe man
]] --> [the man
[I came with]] - [
the room
[I live inthe room
]] --> [the room
[I live in]]
In effect, moving or deleting the relative pronoun breaks up the prepositional phrase.
However, prepositional phrases are constituents, and may optionally be moved as one unit:
- [
the man
[I looked [at the man
]]] --> [the man
[[at whom
] I looked]] - [
the room
[I live [in the room
]]] --> [the room
[[in which
] I live]]
This process, of moving the whole prepositional phrase instead of only its object,
is what Pied-Piping means. The preposition gets piped away to the front, marking its object.
Moreover, prepositional phrases can modify nouns that are objects of other prepositional phrases,
and they, too, are constituents, and can be moved as a unit. So are, and so can, the noun phrases. Again, only optionally. Which leads to such mind-numbing spectra of nonrestrictive relatives as:
- The government prescribes the height of the lettering on the covers of the reports.
- the reports, which the government prescribes the height of the lettering on the covers of
- the reports, of which the government prescribes the height of the lettering on the covers
- the reports, the covers of which the government prescribes the height of the lettering on
- the reports, on the covers of which the government prescribes the height of the lettering
- the reports, the lettering on the covers of which the government prescribes the height of
- the reports, of the lettering on the covers of which the government prescribes the height
- the reports, the height of the lettering on the covers of which the government prescribes
This kind of syntax seems especially common in pedantic, bureaucratic, or legal contexts.
Opinions vary as to the grammaticality of various portions of the spectrum; pied-piping seems
to be a syntactic habit one picks up, if at all, later in one's education, and individually. I.e, YMMV.
1
Nice! Love your exhaustive reply.
– Cyberherbalist
Jul 7 '14 at 22:14
1
Exhaustive? I didn't begin to cover the topic.
– John Lawler
Jul 7 '14 at 23:10
1
Well, it exhausted me, reading it! LOL
– Cyberherbalist
Jul 8 '14 at 18:37
1
+1. Thank you effusively for your care, detail, and every step. Are there any names or terms for this kind of analysis or decomposition?
– Greek - Area 51 Proposal
Jul 21 '14 at 13:41
1
It's called Generative Grammar. If you want to know how to do it, it's all in Jim McCawley's The Syntactic Phenomena of English (U Chicago Press 1998). Pied Piping was either discovered or invented (depending on what church you go to) by Haj Ross in his 1967 MIT dissertation, Constraints on Variables in Syntax.
– John Lawler
Jul 21 '14 at 14:21
|
show 3 more comments
up vote
12
down vote
accepted
up vote
12
down vote
accepted
The technical term for this construction is Pied-Piping.
(I don't make up these names, honest; this one, like many others, is due to Haj Ross)
Here's how it works:
Relative clauses modify nouns; these nouns are called antecedents (because they "go before").
Every relative clause contains an anaphor of its antecedent, which becomes a relative pronoun,
and, under certain circumstances, may simply be deleted.
- [
the man
[the man
came to dinner]] --> [the man
[who/that
came to dinner]] - [
the man
[I sawthe man
]] --> [the man
[who/that
I saw]] --> [the man
[I saw]]
In the first example above, the relative pronoun is the subject and may not be deleted.
In the second example, the relative pronoun is the direct object and may be deleted.
That accounts for the majority of relative clauses.
However, subject and object do not exhaust the roles or positions of nouns.
Other roles are called Oblique, as a class, and include objects of prepositions, of all sorts.
In the following examples, I'll leave out the who/that
version, which is always possible,
- [
the man
[I looked atthe man
]] --> [the man
[who/that
I looked at]]
because oblique relative pronouns are always deletable.
(Note that these all end up stranding a preposition at the end, just like the one above does):
- [
the man
[I looked atthe man
]] --> [the man
[I looked at]] - [
the man
[I talked tothe man
]] --> [the man
[I talked to]] - [
the man
[I came withthe man
]] --> [the man
[I came with]] - [
the room
[I live inthe room
]] --> [the room
[I live in]]
In effect, moving or deleting the relative pronoun breaks up the prepositional phrase.
However, prepositional phrases are constituents, and may optionally be moved as one unit:
- [
the man
[I looked [at the man
]]] --> [the man
[[at whom
] I looked]] - [
the room
[I live [in the room
]]] --> [the room
[[in which
] I live]]
This process, of moving the whole prepositional phrase instead of only its object,
is what Pied-Piping means. The preposition gets piped away to the front, marking its object.
Moreover, prepositional phrases can modify nouns that are objects of other prepositional phrases,
and they, too, are constituents, and can be moved as a unit. So are, and so can, the noun phrases. Again, only optionally. Which leads to such mind-numbing spectra of nonrestrictive relatives as:
- The government prescribes the height of the lettering on the covers of the reports.
- the reports, which the government prescribes the height of the lettering on the covers of
- the reports, of which the government prescribes the height of the lettering on the covers
- the reports, the covers of which the government prescribes the height of the lettering on
- the reports, on the covers of which the government prescribes the height of the lettering
- the reports, the lettering on the covers of which the government prescribes the height of
- the reports, of the lettering on the covers of which the government prescribes the height
- the reports, the height of the lettering on the covers of which the government prescribes
This kind of syntax seems especially common in pedantic, bureaucratic, or legal contexts.
Opinions vary as to the grammaticality of various portions of the spectrum; pied-piping seems
to be a syntactic habit one picks up, if at all, later in one's education, and individually. I.e, YMMV.
The technical term for this construction is Pied-Piping.
(I don't make up these names, honest; this one, like many others, is due to Haj Ross)
Here's how it works:
Relative clauses modify nouns; these nouns are called antecedents (because they "go before").
Every relative clause contains an anaphor of its antecedent, which becomes a relative pronoun,
and, under certain circumstances, may simply be deleted.
- [
the man
[the man
came to dinner]] --> [the man
[who/that
came to dinner]] - [
the man
[I sawthe man
]] --> [the man
[who/that
I saw]] --> [the man
[I saw]]
In the first example above, the relative pronoun is the subject and may not be deleted.
In the second example, the relative pronoun is the direct object and may be deleted.
That accounts for the majority of relative clauses.
However, subject and object do not exhaust the roles or positions of nouns.
Other roles are called Oblique, as a class, and include objects of prepositions, of all sorts.
In the following examples, I'll leave out the who/that
version, which is always possible,
- [
the man
[I looked atthe man
]] --> [the man
[who/that
I looked at]]
because oblique relative pronouns are always deletable.
(Note that these all end up stranding a preposition at the end, just like the one above does):
- [
the man
[I looked atthe man
]] --> [the man
[I looked at]] - [
the man
[I talked tothe man
]] --> [the man
[I talked to]] - [
the man
[I came withthe man
]] --> [the man
[I came with]] - [
the room
[I live inthe room
]] --> [the room
[I live in]]
In effect, moving or deleting the relative pronoun breaks up the prepositional phrase.
However, prepositional phrases are constituents, and may optionally be moved as one unit:
- [
the man
[I looked [at the man
]]] --> [the man
[[at whom
] I looked]] - [
the room
[I live [in the room
]]] --> [the room
[[in which
] I live]]
This process, of moving the whole prepositional phrase instead of only its object,
is what Pied-Piping means. The preposition gets piped away to the front, marking its object.
Moreover, prepositional phrases can modify nouns that are objects of other prepositional phrases,
and they, too, are constituents, and can be moved as a unit. So are, and so can, the noun phrases. Again, only optionally. Which leads to such mind-numbing spectra of nonrestrictive relatives as:
- The government prescribes the height of the lettering on the covers of the reports.
- the reports, which the government prescribes the height of the lettering on the covers of
- the reports, of which the government prescribes the height of the lettering on the covers
- the reports, the covers of which the government prescribes the height of the lettering on
- the reports, on the covers of which the government prescribes the height of the lettering
- the reports, the lettering on the covers of which the government prescribes the height of
- the reports, of the lettering on the covers of which the government prescribes the height
- the reports, the height of the lettering on the covers of which the government prescribes
This kind of syntax seems especially common in pedantic, bureaucratic, or legal contexts.
Opinions vary as to the grammaticality of various portions of the spectrum; pied-piping seems
to be a syntactic habit one picks up, if at all, later in one's education, and individually. I.e, YMMV.
edited 13 mins ago
answered Jul 7 '14 at 17:48
John Lawler
84k6116327
84k6116327
1
Nice! Love your exhaustive reply.
– Cyberherbalist
Jul 7 '14 at 22:14
1
Exhaustive? I didn't begin to cover the topic.
– John Lawler
Jul 7 '14 at 23:10
1
Well, it exhausted me, reading it! LOL
– Cyberherbalist
Jul 8 '14 at 18:37
1
+1. Thank you effusively for your care, detail, and every step. Are there any names or terms for this kind of analysis or decomposition?
– Greek - Area 51 Proposal
Jul 21 '14 at 13:41
1
It's called Generative Grammar. If you want to know how to do it, it's all in Jim McCawley's The Syntactic Phenomena of English (U Chicago Press 1998). Pied Piping was either discovered or invented (depending on what church you go to) by Haj Ross in his 1967 MIT dissertation, Constraints on Variables in Syntax.
– John Lawler
Jul 21 '14 at 14:21
|
show 3 more comments
1
Nice! Love your exhaustive reply.
– Cyberherbalist
Jul 7 '14 at 22:14
1
Exhaustive? I didn't begin to cover the topic.
– John Lawler
Jul 7 '14 at 23:10
1
Well, it exhausted me, reading it! LOL
– Cyberherbalist
Jul 8 '14 at 18:37
1
+1. Thank you effusively for your care, detail, and every step. Are there any names or terms for this kind of analysis or decomposition?
– Greek - Area 51 Proposal
Jul 21 '14 at 13:41
1
It's called Generative Grammar. If you want to know how to do it, it's all in Jim McCawley's The Syntactic Phenomena of English (U Chicago Press 1998). Pied Piping was either discovered or invented (depending on what church you go to) by Haj Ross in his 1967 MIT dissertation, Constraints on Variables in Syntax.
– John Lawler
Jul 21 '14 at 14:21
1
1
Nice! Love your exhaustive reply.
– Cyberherbalist
Jul 7 '14 at 22:14
Nice! Love your exhaustive reply.
– Cyberherbalist
Jul 7 '14 at 22:14
1
1
Exhaustive? I didn't begin to cover the topic.
– John Lawler
Jul 7 '14 at 23:10
Exhaustive? I didn't begin to cover the topic.
– John Lawler
Jul 7 '14 at 23:10
1
1
Well, it exhausted me, reading it! LOL
– Cyberherbalist
Jul 8 '14 at 18:37
Well, it exhausted me, reading it! LOL
– Cyberherbalist
Jul 8 '14 at 18:37
1
1
+1. Thank you effusively for your care, detail, and every step. Are there any names or terms for this kind of analysis or decomposition?
– Greek - Area 51 Proposal
Jul 21 '14 at 13:41
+1. Thank you effusively for your care, detail, and every step. Are there any names or terms for this kind of analysis or decomposition?
– Greek - Area 51 Proposal
Jul 21 '14 at 13:41
1
1
It's called Generative Grammar. If you want to know how to do it, it's all in Jim McCawley's The Syntactic Phenomena of English (U Chicago Press 1998). Pied Piping was either discovered or invented (depending on what church you go to) by Haj Ross in his 1967 MIT dissertation, Constraints on Variables in Syntax.
– John Lawler
Jul 21 '14 at 14:21
It's called Generative Grammar. If you want to know how to do it, it's all in Jim McCawley's The Syntactic Phenomena of English (U Chicago Press 1998). Pied Piping was either discovered or invented (depending on what church you go to) by Haj Ross in his 1967 MIT dissertation, Constraints on Variables in Syntax.
– John Lawler
Jul 21 '14 at 14:21
|
show 3 more comments
up vote
3
down vote
Did anyone answer the last question: "Moreover, is it equivalent to 'the result of any proposition which would be to show ...' ?" Assuming "it" refers to the quote:
‘Any proposition the result of which would be to show that the common law of England is wholly unreasonable and unjust cannot be part of the common law of England.’
then, no, I don't see a way of filling in the dots to make "the result ..." equivalent. Instead, the original quote is equivalent to:
If any proposition has the result that the common law of England is wholly unreasonable and unjust, then that proposition cannot be part of the common law of England.
Part of the derivation of the original is to convert the antecedent of the if-then construction to a relative clause, which is then attached to the subject of the consequent of the if-then clause.
It's all a fancified way of saying that, in law, the common law is assumed to be consistent with itself.
add a comment |
up vote
3
down vote
Did anyone answer the last question: "Moreover, is it equivalent to 'the result of any proposition which would be to show ...' ?" Assuming "it" refers to the quote:
‘Any proposition the result of which would be to show that the common law of England is wholly unreasonable and unjust cannot be part of the common law of England.’
then, no, I don't see a way of filling in the dots to make "the result ..." equivalent. Instead, the original quote is equivalent to:
If any proposition has the result that the common law of England is wholly unreasonable and unjust, then that proposition cannot be part of the common law of England.
Part of the derivation of the original is to convert the antecedent of the if-then construction to a relative clause, which is then attached to the subject of the consequent of the if-then clause.
It's all a fancified way of saying that, in law, the common law is assumed to be consistent with itself.
add a comment |
up vote
3
down vote
up vote
3
down vote
Did anyone answer the last question: "Moreover, is it equivalent to 'the result of any proposition which would be to show ...' ?" Assuming "it" refers to the quote:
‘Any proposition the result of which would be to show that the common law of England is wholly unreasonable and unjust cannot be part of the common law of England.’
then, no, I don't see a way of filling in the dots to make "the result ..." equivalent. Instead, the original quote is equivalent to:
If any proposition has the result that the common law of England is wholly unreasonable and unjust, then that proposition cannot be part of the common law of England.
Part of the derivation of the original is to convert the antecedent of the if-then construction to a relative clause, which is then attached to the subject of the consequent of the if-then clause.
It's all a fancified way of saying that, in law, the common law is assumed to be consistent with itself.
Did anyone answer the last question: "Moreover, is it equivalent to 'the result of any proposition which would be to show ...' ?" Assuming "it" refers to the quote:
‘Any proposition the result of which would be to show that the common law of England is wholly unreasonable and unjust cannot be part of the common law of England.’
then, no, I don't see a way of filling in the dots to make "the result ..." equivalent. Instead, the original quote is equivalent to:
If any proposition has the result that the common law of England is wholly unreasonable and unjust, then that proposition cannot be part of the common law of England.
Part of the derivation of the original is to convert the antecedent of the if-then construction to a relative clause, which is then attached to the subject of the consequent of the if-then clause.
It's all a fancified way of saying that, in law, the common law is assumed to be consistent with itself.
answered Feb 8 '15 at 17:32
Greg Lee
14.1k2829
14.1k2829
add a comment |
add a comment |
up vote
1
down vote
As to your question:
"Does the bolded clause = 'whose result'? "
The answer is Yes.
"... is it equivalent to 'the result of any proposition which would be to show ...' ?"
Again, yes.
I don't quite know how you would unravel the original clause "step by step". It seems to be a matter of a single-step.
Edited to Add:
"..please explain how you determined the meaning of the original clause?" This is a difficult thing to do. I did not have to "determine" the meaning -- I understood it innately. I think if you need a detailed explanation, @JohnLawler's response is probably what you want.
According to some authorities, who, and hence whose, can only be used of people, not objects like propositions. So not strictly equal, but probably close enough for OPs purpose.
– TimLymington
Jul 7 '14 at 16:14
Thanks for your response. Would you please explain how you determined the meaning of the original clause? I guessed. Will you please to respond in your answer, and not as comments?
– Greek - Area 51 Proposal
Jul 7 '14 at 16:16
1
Yes: though some, presumably including Lord Esher, regard whose as inappropriate in cases like this where the relative pronoun's antecedent is not one or more persons, still it has the unique advantage of being both a relative pronoun and in the possessive or genitive case. And if whose is rejected as inappropriate, the admittedly rather awkward periphrasis shown in bold is a fallback choice. Better yet, perhaps, "No proposition that implies that the common law of England is wholly unreasonable and unjust can itself be part of the common law of England."
– Brian Donovan
Jul 7 '14 at 16:16
@BrianDonovan: Would you like to recast as a separate answer for which I can upvote?
– Greek - Area 51 Proposal
Jul 21 '14 at 13:40
add a comment |
up vote
1
down vote
As to your question:
"Does the bolded clause = 'whose result'? "
The answer is Yes.
"... is it equivalent to 'the result of any proposition which would be to show ...' ?"
Again, yes.
I don't quite know how you would unravel the original clause "step by step". It seems to be a matter of a single-step.
Edited to Add:
"..please explain how you determined the meaning of the original clause?" This is a difficult thing to do. I did not have to "determine" the meaning -- I understood it innately. I think if you need a detailed explanation, @JohnLawler's response is probably what you want.
According to some authorities, who, and hence whose, can only be used of people, not objects like propositions. So not strictly equal, but probably close enough for OPs purpose.
– TimLymington
Jul 7 '14 at 16:14
Thanks for your response. Would you please explain how you determined the meaning of the original clause? I guessed. Will you please to respond in your answer, and not as comments?
– Greek - Area 51 Proposal
Jul 7 '14 at 16:16
1
Yes: though some, presumably including Lord Esher, regard whose as inappropriate in cases like this where the relative pronoun's antecedent is not one or more persons, still it has the unique advantage of being both a relative pronoun and in the possessive or genitive case. And if whose is rejected as inappropriate, the admittedly rather awkward periphrasis shown in bold is a fallback choice. Better yet, perhaps, "No proposition that implies that the common law of England is wholly unreasonable and unjust can itself be part of the common law of England."
– Brian Donovan
Jul 7 '14 at 16:16
@BrianDonovan: Would you like to recast as a separate answer for which I can upvote?
– Greek - Area 51 Proposal
Jul 21 '14 at 13:40
add a comment |
up vote
1
down vote
up vote
1
down vote
As to your question:
"Does the bolded clause = 'whose result'? "
The answer is Yes.
"... is it equivalent to 'the result of any proposition which would be to show ...' ?"
Again, yes.
I don't quite know how you would unravel the original clause "step by step". It seems to be a matter of a single-step.
Edited to Add:
"..please explain how you determined the meaning of the original clause?" This is a difficult thing to do. I did not have to "determine" the meaning -- I understood it innately. I think if you need a detailed explanation, @JohnLawler's response is probably what you want.
As to your question:
"Does the bolded clause = 'whose result'? "
The answer is Yes.
"... is it equivalent to 'the result of any proposition which would be to show ...' ?"
Again, yes.
I don't quite know how you would unravel the original clause "step by step". It seems to be a matter of a single-step.
Edited to Add:
"..please explain how you determined the meaning of the original clause?" This is a difficult thing to do. I did not have to "determine" the meaning -- I understood it innately. I think if you need a detailed explanation, @JohnLawler's response is probably what you want.
edited Jul 7 '14 at 22:13
answered Jul 7 '14 at 16:10
Cyberherbalist
6,70422147
6,70422147
According to some authorities, who, and hence whose, can only be used of people, not objects like propositions. So not strictly equal, but probably close enough for OPs purpose.
– TimLymington
Jul 7 '14 at 16:14
Thanks for your response. Would you please explain how you determined the meaning of the original clause? I guessed. Will you please to respond in your answer, and not as comments?
– Greek - Area 51 Proposal
Jul 7 '14 at 16:16
1
Yes: though some, presumably including Lord Esher, regard whose as inappropriate in cases like this where the relative pronoun's antecedent is not one or more persons, still it has the unique advantage of being both a relative pronoun and in the possessive or genitive case. And if whose is rejected as inappropriate, the admittedly rather awkward periphrasis shown in bold is a fallback choice. Better yet, perhaps, "No proposition that implies that the common law of England is wholly unreasonable and unjust can itself be part of the common law of England."
– Brian Donovan
Jul 7 '14 at 16:16
@BrianDonovan: Would you like to recast as a separate answer for which I can upvote?
– Greek - Area 51 Proposal
Jul 21 '14 at 13:40
add a comment |
According to some authorities, who, and hence whose, can only be used of people, not objects like propositions. So not strictly equal, but probably close enough for OPs purpose.
– TimLymington
Jul 7 '14 at 16:14
Thanks for your response. Would you please explain how you determined the meaning of the original clause? I guessed. Will you please to respond in your answer, and not as comments?
– Greek - Area 51 Proposal
Jul 7 '14 at 16:16
1
Yes: though some, presumably including Lord Esher, regard whose as inappropriate in cases like this where the relative pronoun's antecedent is not one or more persons, still it has the unique advantage of being both a relative pronoun and in the possessive or genitive case. And if whose is rejected as inappropriate, the admittedly rather awkward periphrasis shown in bold is a fallback choice. Better yet, perhaps, "No proposition that implies that the common law of England is wholly unreasonable and unjust can itself be part of the common law of England."
– Brian Donovan
Jul 7 '14 at 16:16
@BrianDonovan: Would you like to recast as a separate answer for which I can upvote?
– Greek - Area 51 Proposal
Jul 21 '14 at 13:40
According to some authorities, who, and hence whose, can only be used of people, not objects like propositions. So not strictly equal, but probably close enough for OPs purpose.
– TimLymington
Jul 7 '14 at 16:14
According to some authorities, who, and hence whose, can only be used of people, not objects like propositions. So not strictly equal, but probably close enough for OPs purpose.
– TimLymington
Jul 7 '14 at 16:14
Thanks for your response. Would you please explain how you determined the meaning of the original clause? I guessed. Will you please to respond in your answer, and not as comments?
– Greek - Area 51 Proposal
Jul 7 '14 at 16:16
Thanks for your response. Would you please explain how you determined the meaning of the original clause? I guessed. Will you please to respond in your answer, and not as comments?
– Greek - Area 51 Proposal
Jul 7 '14 at 16:16
1
1
Yes: though some, presumably including Lord Esher, regard whose as inappropriate in cases like this where the relative pronoun's antecedent is not one or more persons, still it has the unique advantage of being both a relative pronoun and in the possessive or genitive case. And if whose is rejected as inappropriate, the admittedly rather awkward periphrasis shown in bold is a fallback choice. Better yet, perhaps, "No proposition that implies that the common law of England is wholly unreasonable and unjust can itself be part of the common law of England."
– Brian Donovan
Jul 7 '14 at 16:16
Yes: though some, presumably including Lord Esher, regard whose as inappropriate in cases like this where the relative pronoun's antecedent is not one or more persons, still it has the unique advantage of being both a relative pronoun and in the possessive or genitive case. And if whose is rejected as inappropriate, the admittedly rather awkward periphrasis shown in bold is a fallback choice. Better yet, perhaps, "No proposition that implies that the common law of England is wholly unreasonable and unjust can itself be part of the common law of England."
– Brian Donovan
Jul 7 '14 at 16:16
@BrianDonovan: Would you like to recast as a separate answer for which I can upvote?
– Greek - Area 51 Proposal
Jul 21 '14 at 13:40
@BrianDonovan: Would you like to recast as a separate answer for which I can upvote?
– Greek - Area 51 Proposal
Jul 21 '14 at 13:40
add a comment |
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