How the low inductance of short ground clip probes prevents interference?
up vote
1
down vote
favorite
Below are photos of two scope probes with different ground clip lengths:
I have read that the shorter ground is used to minimize the inductance of the probe ground lead.
But what does that help for? What happens when the inductance of the ground lead is low? What kind of interference it prevents?
oscilloscope probe
|
show 1 more comment
up vote
1
down vote
favorite
Below are photos of two scope probes with different ground clip lengths:
I have read that the shorter ground is used to minimize the inductance of the probe ground lead.
But what does that help for? What happens when the inductance of the ground lead is low? What kind of interference it prevents?
oscilloscope probe
1
flip the question, what is going to happen when the inductance of the ground lead is high.
– JonRB
6 hours ago
Is the long lead related to picking up conducted or radiated interference?
– user1234
6 hours ago
1
I'll go to bed now, but as I explained in my answer, a series inductance doesn't allow high-frequency ground currents to balance through the probe. If you do high-speed measurements with an oscilloscope, you will need to understand what impedance is!
– Marcus Müller
6 hours ago
1
@user1234 and, as I literally said in my answer, no, it doesn't pick up interference.
– Marcus Müller
6 hours ago
1
exactly. and now one part of the measurement path has a higher impedance for the supply spike to travel.
– Marcus Müller
6 hours ago
|
show 1 more comment
up vote
1
down vote
favorite
up vote
1
down vote
favorite
Below are photos of two scope probes with different ground clip lengths:
I have read that the shorter ground is used to minimize the inductance of the probe ground lead.
But what does that help for? What happens when the inductance of the ground lead is low? What kind of interference it prevents?
oscilloscope probe
Below are photos of two scope probes with different ground clip lengths:
I have read that the shorter ground is used to minimize the inductance of the probe ground lead.
But what does that help for? What happens when the inductance of the ground lead is low? What kind of interference it prevents?
oscilloscope probe
oscilloscope probe
asked 6 hours ago
user1234
1
1
1
flip the question, what is going to happen when the inductance of the ground lead is high.
– JonRB
6 hours ago
Is the long lead related to picking up conducted or radiated interference?
– user1234
6 hours ago
1
I'll go to bed now, but as I explained in my answer, a series inductance doesn't allow high-frequency ground currents to balance through the probe. If you do high-speed measurements with an oscilloscope, you will need to understand what impedance is!
– Marcus Müller
6 hours ago
1
@user1234 and, as I literally said in my answer, no, it doesn't pick up interference.
– Marcus Müller
6 hours ago
1
exactly. and now one part of the measurement path has a higher impedance for the supply spike to travel.
– Marcus Müller
6 hours ago
|
show 1 more comment
1
flip the question, what is going to happen when the inductance of the ground lead is high.
– JonRB
6 hours ago
Is the long lead related to picking up conducted or radiated interference?
– user1234
6 hours ago
1
I'll go to bed now, but as I explained in my answer, a series inductance doesn't allow high-frequency ground currents to balance through the probe. If you do high-speed measurements with an oscilloscope, you will need to understand what impedance is!
– Marcus Müller
6 hours ago
1
@user1234 and, as I literally said in my answer, no, it doesn't pick up interference.
– Marcus Müller
6 hours ago
1
exactly. and now one part of the measurement path has a higher impedance for the supply spike to travel.
– Marcus Müller
6 hours ago
1
1
flip the question, what is going to happen when the inductance of the ground lead is high.
– JonRB
6 hours ago
flip the question, what is going to happen when the inductance of the ground lead is high.
– JonRB
6 hours ago
Is the long lead related to picking up conducted or radiated interference?
– user1234
6 hours ago
Is the long lead related to picking up conducted or radiated interference?
– user1234
6 hours ago
1
1
I'll go to bed now, but as I explained in my answer, a series inductance doesn't allow high-frequency ground currents to balance through the probe. If you do high-speed measurements with an oscilloscope, you will need to understand what impedance is!
– Marcus Müller
6 hours ago
I'll go to bed now, but as I explained in my answer, a series inductance doesn't allow high-frequency ground currents to balance through the probe. If you do high-speed measurements with an oscilloscope, you will need to understand what impedance is!
– Marcus Müller
6 hours ago
1
1
@user1234 and, as I literally said in my answer, no, it doesn't pick up interference.
– Marcus Müller
6 hours ago
@user1234 and, as I literally said in my answer, no, it doesn't pick up interference.
– Marcus Müller
6 hours ago
1
1
exactly. and now one part of the measurement path has a higher impedance for the supply spike to travel.
– Marcus Müller
6 hours ago
exactly. and now one part of the measurement path has a higher impedance for the supply spike to travel.
– Marcus Müller
6 hours ago
|
show 1 more comment
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
up vote
3
down vote
It doesn't prevent interference. It prevents ground lead impedance.
Simply imagine an inductor in series with your ground connection: that acts as a low-pass filter. So, high-speed currents can't be grounded, and for these, your instrument seems to float.
add a comment |
up vote
2
down vote
I was invited to assist in debugging a switching regulator IC; problem was "two kinds of oscillation".
I asked what were the frequency of oscillation, and answer was 80MHz.
I asked "how long is the scope ground lead" with answer being "The usual 6inches or 8inches".
I explained "The resonant frequency, of 200nH (8") gnd-lead scope probe with 15pF input capacity, is about 90MHz."
Turns out the silicon designer had cranked out LDOs in his prior IC work, and had never needed to learn fast transient probing methods. Here he got to learn about scope probe ringing.
The other form of oscillation/noise/weird-behavior involved jitter in the timing of entering and exiting discontinuous modes. That involved very very slow decays of the regulated voltage and timing errors caused by thermal noise.
add a comment |
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
3
down vote
It doesn't prevent interference. It prevents ground lead impedance.
Simply imagine an inductor in series with your ground connection: that acts as a low-pass filter. So, high-speed currents can't be grounded, and for these, your instrument seems to float.
add a comment |
up vote
3
down vote
It doesn't prevent interference. It prevents ground lead impedance.
Simply imagine an inductor in series with your ground connection: that acts as a low-pass filter. So, high-speed currents can't be grounded, and for these, your instrument seems to float.
add a comment |
up vote
3
down vote
up vote
3
down vote
It doesn't prevent interference. It prevents ground lead impedance.
Simply imagine an inductor in series with your ground connection: that acts as a low-pass filter. So, high-speed currents can't be grounded, and for these, your instrument seems to float.
It doesn't prevent interference. It prevents ground lead impedance.
Simply imagine an inductor in series with your ground connection: that acts as a low-pass filter. So, high-speed currents can't be grounded, and for these, your instrument seems to float.
answered 6 hours ago
Marcus Müller
30.8k35691
30.8k35691
add a comment |
add a comment |
up vote
2
down vote
I was invited to assist in debugging a switching regulator IC; problem was "two kinds of oscillation".
I asked what were the frequency of oscillation, and answer was 80MHz.
I asked "how long is the scope ground lead" with answer being "The usual 6inches or 8inches".
I explained "The resonant frequency, of 200nH (8") gnd-lead scope probe with 15pF input capacity, is about 90MHz."
Turns out the silicon designer had cranked out LDOs in his prior IC work, and had never needed to learn fast transient probing methods. Here he got to learn about scope probe ringing.
The other form of oscillation/noise/weird-behavior involved jitter in the timing of entering and exiting discontinuous modes. That involved very very slow decays of the regulated voltage and timing errors caused by thermal noise.
add a comment |
up vote
2
down vote
I was invited to assist in debugging a switching regulator IC; problem was "two kinds of oscillation".
I asked what were the frequency of oscillation, and answer was 80MHz.
I asked "how long is the scope ground lead" with answer being "The usual 6inches or 8inches".
I explained "The resonant frequency, of 200nH (8") gnd-lead scope probe with 15pF input capacity, is about 90MHz."
Turns out the silicon designer had cranked out LDOs in his prior IC work, and had never needed to learn fast transient probing methods. Here he got to learn about scope probe ringing.
The other form of oscillation/noise/weird-behavior involved jitter in the timing of entering and exiting discontinuous modes. That involved very very slow decays of the regulated voltage and timing errors caused by thermal noise.
add a comment |
up vote
2
down vote
up vote
2
down vote
I was invited to assist in debugging a switching regulator IC; problem was "two kinds of oscillation".
I asked what were the frequency of oscillation, and answer was 80MHz.
I asked "how long is the scope ground lead" with answer being "The usual 6inches or 8inches".
I explained "The resonant frequency, of 200nH (8") gnd-lead scope probe with 15pF input capacity, is about 90MHz."
Turns out the silicon designer had cranked out LDOs in his prior IC work, and had never needed to learn fast transient probing methods. Here he got to learn about scope probe ringing.
The other form of oscillation/noise/weird-behavior involved jitter in the timing of entering and exiting discontinuous modes. That involved very very slow decays of the regulated voltage and timing errors caused by thermal noise.
I was invited to assist in debugging a switching regulator IC; problem was "two kinds of oscillation".
I asked what were the frequency of oscillation, and answer was 80MHz.
I asked "how long is the scope ground lead" with answer being "The usual 6inches or 8inches".
I explained "The resonant frequency, of 200nH (8") gnd-lead scope probe with 15pF input capacity, is about 90MHz."
Turns out the silicon designer had cranked out LDOs in his prior IC work, and had never needed to learn fast transient probing methods. Here he got to learn about scope probe ringing.
The other form of oscillation/noise/weird-behavior involved jitter in the timing of entering and exiting discontinuous modes. That involved very very slow decays of the regulated voltage and timing errors caused by thermal noise.
answered 55 mins ago
analogsystemsrf
13.2k2716
13.2k2716
add a comment |
add a comment |
Thanks for contributing an answer to Electrical Engineering Stack Exchange!
- Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!
But avoid …
- Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.
- Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.
Use MathJax to format equations. MathJax reference.
To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.
Some of your past answers have not been well-received, and you're in danger of being blocked from answering.
Please pay close attention to the following guidance:
- Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!
But avoid …
- Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.
- Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.
To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function () {
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2felectronics.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f411399%2fhow-the-low-inductance-of-short-ground-clip-probes-prevents-interference%23new-answer', 'question_page');
}
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
1
flip the question, what is going to happen when the inductance of the ground lead is high.
– JonRB
6 hours ago
Is the long lead related to picking up conducted or radiated interference?
– user1234
6 hours ago
1
I'll go to bed now, but as I explained in my answer, a series inductance doesn't allow high-frequency ground currents to balance through the probe. If you do high-speed measurements with an oscilloscope, you will need to understand what impedance is!
– Marcus Müller
6 hours ago
1
@user1234 and, as I literally said in my answer, no, it doesn't pick up interference.
– Marcus Müller
6 hours ago
1
exactly. and now one part of the measurement path has a higher impedance for the supply spike to travel.
– Marcus Müller
6 hours ago